Coming attractions: Livonya's beta 2.0

Hey Wiz, that 's a few 'unhappy' faces Ive seen lately, hope everything's ok. Fruella has given me the shits on occasions, but so what. So does everyone else, in-and-out of game. No big deal, that's just life. I give myself the shits just as much, but what can I do?
Anyway, catch ya

 

Oooh! I hope it's the completed Arena of Champions. Or is it the installer?

 

Maybe I am reading between the lines and from Livs post I assumed Fruella was history because she is so unpopular. You people can mod the game all you want to, but if you can't accept any dissent or difference of opinon. If you can't accept any critcism and consider it whining, that's your business. I haven't seen one thing that has made the game better, more enjoyable or more playable. Not to say at some point in time that it wont happen. Still too many bugs and the game still doesn't play like it should. Sorry.

 

So fixing the enemy AI isn't an improvement? Actually having enemy spellcasters cast spells isn't an improvement? Fixing the way a bunch of the spells work isn't an improvement. Fixing numerous other scripting errors and bugs isn't an improvement? Adding new quests isn't an improvement?

I honestly don't see where you're coming from, wizgeorge. There's dozens upon dozens of NPCs in this game. Just because she hasn't made any additions to the one that happens to be your favorite doesn't mean she won't eventually or that she'll be deleted.

You. Need. To. Chill.

 

There's plenty of vivid discussion going on here, and that's a good thing. As I said, constructive criticism is always welcome. But what's up with "if you delete Fruella, I'm not gonna play your mods"? Voicing dissent is cool with me, but you're just being grumpy.

Excuse me? Well, seems you're really hard to please then.

 

Yes, you are correct, I am 58 years old and I am a grumpy old man and hard to please, sometimes. I just don't care for some of the stuff i've read and seen. Make evil more powerful so they can slaughter Hommlett? I don't remember that being in the module. I think the game is moving away from it's design concept and intent. I haven't seen a lot of the mod stuff because of the way I play. Lareth is dead, the traders are dead and the gang at the BrokenTower have joined Lareth in hell. More content for sure, it's sorely needed. What kind? That's another story. I meant what I said about Fruella. If she's deleted from the game, if I play, I just wont use that mod. Personal choice, that's all. To me that would be a sign that the game has went out of the context I want to play in. Once again, just personal choice.

 

Trust me I am NOT making uber NPCs. That is one thing I absolutely hate.

The changes I have made are to try to get the NPCs more in accordance to their original module stats (with adjustments for 3.5 rules).

Most NPCs had too high of stats in the original as they were not designed for 3.5 rules.

In my 1.5 mod I dropped many of them to level 1. In 2.0 I take them back with adjustments...

So for instance Furnok is back to being higher level, Elmo is still the same level, etc...

I am not a power gamer and everything I do is to try to make the game more challenging and fun for me. The idea of being able to hire super NPCs for a few hundred gold is not my idea of fun.

If people complain it will be that I didn't make them into super heroes.

- Livonya

 

What are you talking about? Why would I remove Fruella? Far from it. I am trying to make using her more interesting.

My goal is to GET people to USE the NPCs. I think the NPCs are awesome. And my goal is to make them seem like real people with real lives and real agendas.

I want you to use the NPCs. I will NOT get rid of them.

My hope is that using the NPCs will be fun. I am trying to make them so they are neither too powerful nor too weak. I want people to use them.

I want to try to create a situation where using the NPCs will add to your game exeprience.

- Livonya

 

Your comments on npc's is very encouraging. As much as I like to use Fruella in my games, she is a pita, no doubt. If I was going to change anything, I'd boost her strength from 14 to 16(14 is mediocre average) and decrease her charisma from 16 to 8. Let's face it, she is NOT a charming person. But I'll tell you what, and maybe it's just my imagination, with good armour, shield and her cleaver she is a terrific fighter. The logbook doesn't track npc's, but she sure gets a lot of critical hits. Yes, just like T1 module says, she's bossy, pushy, rude , kind of cold-hearted with a mean streak. Not the most pleasant person you'd want to meet, but she sure knows how to fight. Her intimidate score should be about 80. Just put her to good use.

 

There are some usuful ideas in here. Thanks.

- Livonya

 

I don't know if charisma is even a factor for npcs. Their responses are totally scripted. A rogue can disable device, pick the lock, but can't open the chest. With the way dialogue is scripted, how would a npc use charisma? Does it ever come into play in the converstions with the pc's? What about intimidate, sense motive, etc. Npc's can't initiate a conversation so what skills can they use?

 

Hey, wizgeorge, I'm old enough to have DMed the original module (FOLIO version, not hardcover) as an adult, when it first came out. Lots of us old farts out there.

I'm not sure that the point is making evil more powerful, but rather giving evil alignment parties more powerful motivations for doing the things they do, and give them DIFFERENT things to do rather THAN mindlesslessly slaughter Hommlett. My big complaint about evil alignment in this game as released is that most of the actions I end up doing are the same as a good party would do. To do otherwise would be stupid in game terms. I don't necessarily mind roleplaying an evil alignment (even though every PnP character I've ever played is LG, cuz that's just the way I am made), but I detest being forced to roleplay stupidly (kill all of Hommlett, because there are not any viable or suitable alternatives) or poorly (do all the step-n-fetch it and matchmaker quests despite the fact that my party really shouldn't care, because there are no minor ways to gain xp for low level evil aligned parties).

Here is your problem. The original MODULE was designed for Good alignment, as was all of Gygax's stuff. The computer GAME however, lets you pick your party alignment, and indeed the freedom to play any alignment was a big advertising hook. The computer game's design concept and intent ALWAYS emphasized this freedom (hunt up early designer interviews and spoilers from Troika to see what I mean). This intent was implemented shoddily, so that the game experience really only works for Good alignments. Hence the amount of attention that evil type stuff is getting, the good side of the story is already there. I think what you're seeing is an attempt to get TOEE to the level of gameplay that KOTOR has. Two complete and different games depending on whether you're playing LIGHT or DARK.

I actually leave the traders alive usually, as about 80% of the time my party is LG, and I don't think lawful characters should be handing out summary justice is someone else's town. I used to keep taunting them, hoping they'd attack and I could claim self defense when called to account by Burne and Rufus, but they cowardly would never rise to the occasion. Actually, I think LG parties get away with some things in this game that they shouldn't. My ultimate hope is that eventually modders will script away all of the inconsistencies in the storylines.

Not your imagination. She may not have been an uber NPC, but she definately had an uber weapon. I'm glad it's been toned down. And yes, she's one of my personal favorites also, and in addition to Meleny is about the only NPC that I have ever raised from dead, since I don't use NPC clerics for that. Throwback to 1st edition where getting characters raised was difficult and usually required a lengthy quest, rather than just some mundane transfer of gold.

 

I can see an ambitious lawful evil type wanting to build his own empire. Hitler did a real good job of it. There are very charismatic. intelligent people out there who have big plans. a.k.a Osama Bin Laden. Power and control are very strong temptations for some people. Iuz is not happy with Hedrack, and is searching for a replacement. A power hungry evil person might send in a resume`, maybe. If it was up to Lolth, then it would be Lareth. Who wants to be king? Go for it.

 

i noticed that you said some npcs will sometimes loot gems and jewlery and sell it to merchants. Will they at least only sell them to the APPROPRIATE merchant? it really sucks to get the pitance you are paid for loot cut in half because the merchant is of the wrong kind.

And also, would you be able to take money from the NPCs?
You buy their starting gear for money, and then you give them new BETTER gear for free... they end up hogging money from the party AND hogging equipment (as you have to repurchase the equipment from them)