Co8 New Content: War of the Golden Skull

Discussion in 'New Content Subdirectories' started by Gaear, Mar 22, 2010.

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  1. shiffd

    shiffd Member

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    OK guuys i finally got the WOTGS to get moving. I finish the first battle outside of the house pretty easy....My next choice has been to try to save the inn. I couldn't walk over, massive jerkstop/laggin/something buggy. I tried to use the map to go straight there, which teleoprts me directly into the middle of the attacking hextorites...I guess this is okay accept,
    The hextorites are jerkstopping /freezing.....

    I'm trying to get get to them. If I revert a save to where my part yhas no jerkshop/freezing, whatevery you call it...it doesn't matter. The hextorites jerkstop/freeze as soon as they appear. Fighting them causes the game, and my entire PC to crash. WTF .

    This is horrible. I have hardbooted my PC like 5 times now. This game/expansion/software is no putting me in a position where my hardisk could get scratches/make some things get really unstable (a program failing so bad and running code of a nature that windows can not shut it down without itself terminating....)

    IS it possible to make changing this game to NOT crash your PC a priority before any more updates/changes?

    I still ahve the issue that I would like to figure out how to make it work without crashing now...but I was thinking practically adn my PCs health should take priority....Anyway I hope that there may be considered a new approach/guidelines/problem solving to figure out how to make TOEE run in a way that if it fails it closes by itself and does not cause your entire PC to crash.
     
  2. chano

    chano Established Member

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    WotGS is a bit buggy atm but i haven't had any pc crashes.
    The game freeze from time to time and i need to kill the game manually.
    There is a lot of jerkstop, especially after fighting at the guard tower, so last time I did that last and it worked much better, could be coincidence.
    As a matter of fact, last playthrough it worked just fine.
     
  3. shiffd

    shiffd Member

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    I gave it a couple more tries. The mobs are still coming in frozen. Do people know waht I mean by frozen? I am having trouble explaining it. Sometimes it happens to your players (PCs) when you enter hommlet, and you ahve to leave via the map again and try again and/or revert a save to try and get it to stop happening. Very annoying bug to say teh least.

    Here is the trouble...these monsters are now freezing. As I come out and try to approach, they are frozen. This makes my PCs jerkstop. Or like when I tell them to walk, they just walk like to steps and stop, not following the command, all froze up/jerky. Really buggy.

    With luck the mobs unfreeze- as they unfreez...so does my characters. teh more of the mobs that unfreeze, the more I can move. and so forth.

    Now here is a big issue.- IF I engage combat once it gets to my 5th party member, a level 18 halfling wizard, she can not complete any actions. if she fires a spell or her crossbow, it freezes above her head. If I go for like chain lightning or somethign it crashes the game/freezes on a blackscreen of death i have to hard boot to get rid of. Once the round or spell freezes above her head, the music keeps playing and it shows her actions as done. I can click on teh skip turn (red button) sometimes but it just goes grety and sticks there. totally retarded.

    Is there something about this character buggin git? Some permaspell effect I am not realizing/seeing??? Or maybe an item she has. She has the skull and the fungus icon. This is really screwy....

    To the Devs-
    Suggestion for 7.1 or later releases- FORGET Hommlet!!!! This place is bug central. Have the party automatically transported (by talking to the guy or something) to a NEW map...which is hommlets base graphic map, but not actually homlet. So no doors, but who cares. make it a brand new map and PREPLACE the mobs (kinda like how hickory branch was built, or any kinda new map with new mobs alreayd on it). Then we start in the map zoned in maybe at the house, but don't get there through the door. have a regular hommlett never changed or anything that we would go to once we 've killed everything, maybe the q giver zones in like in teh arena and/or we have some doors on edge of map we can use to retreat to teh house interior to recoop between zones if that was intended. As currently designed This zoning in the mobs seems massively bugged and seems it woudl be soooo much easier to just make a new map using the same graphic and preplace the mobs, not spawn them.

    Or well I don't know coding but it just seems that homlett is bugcity and ADDING content to it/zoning in mobs is insanity....remember how the goblin was just eventually removed because it was impossible not to bug out??? SAME PROBLEM all over again!!
     
  4. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    @shiffd, settle down. You're making a lot of unwarranted assumptions, and your accusatory tone isn't helping anything.

    Most of the stuff you're ranting over is already known and has been discussed here and elsewhere. There will be fixes for much of it in the next release. Other things are never so simple, like the increased jerkstop associated with WotGS. We are indeed seriously considering removing that from Hommlet, as the two just don't seem to play nice. (Hommlet already has issues, and the dramatically increased number of mobs there seems to have, not terribly surprisingly, made them worse.)

    • The WotGS enemies are not spawned in Hommlet.

    • Spawning and/or mobbing them in doesn't seem to be the issue anyway; their concurrently firing scripts and other contributing factors more likely are.
    Now, we're already aware of this, so your ranting hasn't really helped anything. Making 'recommendations' or quasi-criticisms ("zoning in the mobs!") or giving technical advice when you don't really know the system you're advising on is generally ill-advised, so no more of that please.

    Like it or not, pretty much the only way we arrive at discovering things like this is through community feedback. An enterprise like ours does not involve extensive internal beta testing. (The limited internal beta testing we did do, incidentally, showed no increased issues with jerkstop.) Therefore, you the player get to be the beta tester. I don't feel that's particularly offensive given the fact that 1., you are receiving the mod and support for it for free, and 2., you don't have to play it.

    Lots of people wait for bugfixing releases, understanding the likelihood that initial releases will be generally more buggy. If you're the sort who doesn't want to deal with bugs, you should wait for followup releases.

    That possibility has already been thought of and discussed, and while we may do it eventually (and may not), it's not something you just drop in one evening. It would require an equally phenomenal amount of scripting as is already present with the Hextorites, and that increased significantly by the fact that the two groups would have to be intertmingled to some degree, scripting-wise (e.g. these guys turn on only when these guys aren't and vice-versa, as limited and controlled by variables a, b, and c, etc., etc.). It's very complicated, and frankly we've got bigger fish to fry right now. So for the time being (and maybe permanently), if you're an evil Hextorite, you get to kill the town or the Hextorites for fun and profit. If you're an evil non-Hextorite, you get to kill the Hextorites for fun and profit. I don't think that's so bad.
     
  5. shiffd

    shiffd Member

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    Sorry I realize this is all free content and that.... Just got stuck and frustrated.
    Anyway yea, I suspect since its 7, and NC, that well, bugs come with the terf... I didn't mean to be an arse about it.

    Feedback, meant constructively - #1 a way/process to kill TOEE when it bugs/failsafe etc. so we don't ahve to hardboot #2 Removing these combats from homlet

    I doN7t mean this as demand, I realize i poorly worded. Its just suggestions/ideas. I don't program so I don't know all the natureo f the problems.

    Any suggestions for process/method inthe interim with my current save game to get through these combats? Right now I can't complete the battle (leave the inn after initiating the quest) without eventually my PC crashing. In some cases I am able to cntrl-alt-delete to get my program manager and kill TOEE from there.

    any advice/help getting through this battle would be greatly appreciated.
    I know you might suggest using a the console to kill some mobs etc manually to just bypass this event...unfortunatley I can't access the console because my PC and keyboard are japanese and has no tilde key. That key position is taken over by the language toggle key and pushing it doesn't get recognnized as a tilde.

    Thank you again for the content, I really just mean to give some advice/ideas as I play through it. I don7t mean to bag on yo uguys, you do awesome awesome work. The quest/content is spot on, its just buggy right now. Hopeing to find a way through/around the bugs and it is frustrating, but it comes with the terf of community built content.

    thank you again and sorry again if I came off wrong!!!
     
  6. shiffd

    shiffd Member

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    OH BTW
    I just noticed/ realized there is the shaking and bombs and fire added to buildings...when it bugs this happens in different order and it may or may not have to do with my issues. Maybe there is some aniimations that are trying to complete or osmething before/during combat that are getting mucked up? Anyway i know I don't knwo the coding, just trying to explain whats bugging and figure out why.
     
  7. chano

    chano Established Member

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    Shiffd,, when the game freeze for me i press the Windows key to get out of the game and then just kill toee.exe from task manager.
    When the game has been loaded once in a windows session, it usually load quickly the second time.
     
  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    There's really nothing so serious going on with ToEE that it would affect anything in your system aside from ToEE, so if you're experiencing other system troubles, it's probably something independant of ToEE.

    As for getting through the WotGS combat, you're probably out of luck absent going back to an old save from before WotGS. Once the jerkstoppy stuff starts, it's usually there to stay.
     
  9. shiffd

    shiffd Member

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    There's really nothing so serious going on with ToEE that it would affect anything in your system aside from ToEE, so if you're experiencing other system troubles, it's probably something independant of ToEE.

    I'm sorry but I never said I was having any other troubles with my PC. I'm not sure where that is relevant. What I said is that TOEE locks up/goes to a black screen. When trying to play the game/while playing the game.
    You are much more aware than me of how instable this game has always been, there is no issue with my PC if I run TOEE and it crashes it. TOEE is capable of doing this.
    Thank you for all your work on NC, mods and trying to make the game more stable. For now though I will take a break. This is far too frustrating.
     
  10. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    You said:

    You seemed to be suggesting in these statements that ToEE is causing your PC to crash. I'm almost certain it's not. If it is, that means thousands of players before you had no PC crash issues but now you do, so the ToEE code has magically elevated itself to attain the power of potential system-wide corruption (accessing Windows .dlls and who knows what else). I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

    Basically, I have never myself encountered or heard of anyone else encountering a play scenario that couldn't be recovered from by simply CTRL-ALT-DELing out.

    Anyway, it won't be much longer before the next update is up.
     
  11. shiffd

    shiffd Member

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    Allow me to clarify.
    I can run a lot of other video games on this PC, mostly from GOG.com, some off disks.
    BG, IWD, NWN, HOMM (many versions), M&M, Wizardry, Arcanum...the list goes on, I think you get the point . Oh and some Doss based games like castles and stuff that need extra programs to get them to work at all on a modern PC.

    Some other games do cause issues at times. Mostly when I am done playing a game I take them off the PC and often even do a backup of an earlier state incase something got messed up. I'm sure you know waht I am talking about wtih this stuff, since obviously yo uare a video game lover too.

    What I am saying aobut TOEE, is when I get jerkstop/freezes etc. OFTEN, very veyr OFten Cntrl+Alt+Delete, simply does nothing. I'm dead serious, no reaction. Only with this game. Yes I know how to kill programs, what I am saying is when this program gets really jacked up, it wont die. This leaves me no option but to hardboot. This is what I mean by crashing my PC, by locking up the screen/PC to the point that I can not get my task manager up with cntrlaltdelete and its not possible to kill the game :(. Sometimes alt-tab works for some reason.

    I guess if I ahve patience I can wait like 10 minutes and maybe finally the game will kill itself or rsomething. I just ahve to wait for it to think or get some ram free or whatever..who knows. BTW I have 2 gigs of ram. Not a lot, but should be nough right?

    Not tryingto diss the game or your work on it. You are doing great. What I am saying is, at no fault of my PC, this game locks up to the pint where there is no option but hardbooting.
    I have played this game through since version 5 with your NC stuff (great stuff BTW) I never really had this issue before. IT all started with the initiation of the WOTG in hommlett.

    So yes hundreds/thousands ahve played Co8 stuff and maybe never had any/many that the game locks up so bad they can'T even cntrlaltdelete out of it....perahps this level of staggerstep and locking up/whatever is new to the WOTGS stuff.
     
  12. chano

    chano Established Member

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    I have had to wait for a few minutes in the nodes but it always start responding.
    I have played through 7.0NC 4 times and have not had the same experience in WotGS as you seem to have.
    It does lock in combat, but i am able to easily kill the game by pressing the Windows key that open the start menu and thus get me do the desktop from where i can open taskmanager and kill the game.
    Ctrl - Alt - Delete usually doesn't work when the game freeze.

    The jerkstop always happens near the Welcome Wench for me in WotGS so i always do the other fights first and take the patrol and WW last
     
  13. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Rest assured that something is going to be done about WotGS jerkstop and jerkstop in general eventually, but unfortunately it won't happen right away. Still not sure what to do about WotGS, but for the general problem we''ll probably try removing most non-essential mobs from Hommlet exterior next. (They all appeared - the roving kids by day, etc. - in v5.5 when jerkstop began. That's about the only possible culprit that hasn't been addressed yet.)

    WotGS will indeed probably have to be staged somewhere else, sadly, but that's going to take a lot of the thrill out of it so I'm not sure what to do just yet.

    Be advised that v7.1 will not yet have any jerkstop fixes.
     
  14. WinstonShnozwick

    WinstonShnozwick Established Member

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    Finally started WotGS for the first time. This is awesome, walking out of the town defense building and seeing all of them was amazing. I quite like the concept of being able to fight battle after battle and have your characters slowly wear down. Would it be possible to reduce some XP gain? My level 16 PC's gained a level up after every group I battled, and it went extremely fast. If you will be able to improve the battles in the future, I have some things I noticed;

    - Bearded Devils truly suck. They miss my units every turn, and only sit there and take slightly longer to kill. They don't really do anything to make the fights better.

    - Enemy spellcasters could use some higher spells. Flame strike and lightning bolt is pretty sad against my party level.

    - I quite like how the enemy units have very few items to loot, I think it is perfect like that. With dozens of enemies, it would be annoying to have to pick everything up.

    - Hextor fighters were semi strong vs my party when they were able to attack, but they usually ended up confetti by my paladins halbard. They could use some increase in stats overall I think. This isn't a cakewalk battle, but my party is all level 20 now, and if you don't count my wizards ability to blast AoE evocation spells, my hand to hand units still murder with enchanted weapons.

    - Hextor archers are weaksauce. I've noticed this in the game many times before, ranged units are just not very good in most cases, only ones with good hcaracter levels can be any good, like the slaver in emridy meadows. The archers could use some ranged attacking feats or something, they are very weak.

    Again, WotGS is awesome. I think it could use more units like the character leveled leader of the Hextorites in the group outside the town defense building. Before my paladin critted him for 125 damage, he was going to be a difficult enemy. And the elementalist was good before prismatic spray took him out. More good leveled units like those would help the challenge.

    Well, I'll see how the fight against Iuz Avatars goes when I get there. It sounds like I'll get my butt kicked.
     
  15. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    That's strange ... in testing they always hit me. Pain in the ass it was. Plus, Hextors are supposed to associate with those things, so there's an actual reason for them being there.

    The thing is, they're supposed to be 'battle mages,' sort of rank and file artillery types. Not specialists. (There shouldn't be many of those around.)

    They can't all be superheroes either.

    I agree with this. They need to improve because right now they just waste time taking their turns with automatic misses. I think they were significantly lower level, sort of like the standard (canon fodder) fighters.
     
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