Co8 New Content: Verbobonc

11. Location of the slave traders, the 3 fugitives, and the castle ghosts

http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8742

The slave traders are in the bottom right corner of Emridy Meadows.

Also, please DO NOT put your email on open forums. It is not generally healthy.

 

Hi Ironballs
I won't spoil it for you, but carefully search an area you have been to before that is between Verbobonc and Hommlet.
The Royal Canadian

 

Just like almost everyone else I have a problem with those ghosts. I still haven't been able to find any ghost on the third floor, except when I have tried resting there, and that ghost disappears as soon as combat ends (either when I destroy it or when the ghost gets its turn). Does anyone have any suggestions for finding that ghost?

 

^ Try looking at night.

 

That's what I've been doing. I've been spending quite a long time there looking for ghosts at night. I've also changed maps a bit, going outside of Verbobonc, to make sure I get the change from day to night. Nothing seems to help. The only ghosts I can find are the ones that appear when I rest.

 

Hi Racin
You have to look on the third floor of the castle. Don't try resting, just wait patiently and keep your eyes open.
The Royal Canadian

 

Slaver quest deception

First, let me say that I have finished playing most of the NC in 6.0.1 and I think it is GREAT! Some of those quests are more interesting and better-developed than in the original content. Obviously a lot of hard work has gone into that, and I enjoyed it.
Having said that, I think it is the most disgusted I have ever been with a quest when I finished the slaver's quest. When the viscount gave me the quest, he gave me very specific descriptions of the seven slavers, including class and physical characteristics. There were even pictures (which were awesome, by the way) that I sort of took as a type of "wanted" poster. So when I encounter this group with a bunch of kids with them that exactly meets the descriptions given by the Viscount, including the pictures, I attack from a distance (from across one of those ditches) with ranged spells and a summoned Balor. When the battle is over I go up to the kids and get a dialog option to return them to Verbobonc, which I do. I am then arrested for murdering their rescuers! I kept waiting for some opportunity to protest my innocence or something, but no, I am automatically convicted. I bought my way out but am still stuck with the murderer reputation. What is up with that!? Rescuers that just happen to look exactly like the kidnappers with he same class skills?! The Viscount trying to frame me after I killed a dragon for him? I am guessing that this is some attempt to prevent an ambush by the player, but that totally kills the role-playing. What good is a Ranger or a Rogue role-playing wise if the Ranger can't track the bad guys and allow you to sneak up on them (especially after being warned about how dangerous they are) or if your rogue can't surprise attack?
Anyway, sorry to vent about that but having these "rescuers" exactly match the description of the bad guys just totally ruined the role-playing experience for me.
Other than that I love the mod! Honest!

 

Hi Quanto
If you read through some of the older posts in this thread, you will find that Gaear scripted the encounter that way on purpose: namely to prevent you from doing what you did. If you think about it there is a certain amount of logic to it, just because there are adults standing near the kids, it doesn't necessarily mean the adults are the slavers you are looking for. I will freely admit, the first time I went after the slavers I played it the way you did, and was very surprised with the results. Now for the good news: The fight is still winnable, even if you do have to "play by Paladin rules". For starters you can buff your party ( in other words cast all sorts of protective spells like Mage Armor, Stoneskin, etc... ) before you go and confront the slavers ( confirming the ID of your targets is always a good idea :yes. Just don't let them complete their dialogue !! Start the dialogue so you can confirm they are the slavers, and as soon as you get an "Attack" option in the Dialogue: TAKE IT !! I should point out that one "Buff" you might want to consider (or at least I am thinking of using it when I get ready to go after the slavers next time) is Neutralize Poison. Not that because of anything the slavers are going to do, but because I plan on starting the "party" with a Stinking Cloud spell. After extensive testing on Wondrous Items over the last week or so, I have determined that there are no Wondrous Items that will help you in any way against a Stinking Cloud (except for Cloak of Resistance, which doesn't help you much), not even the Necklace of Adaption, which according to the 3.5 rules should give you total immunity. in case you are wondering why I am advocating the use of Stinking Cloud, it is because Stinking Cloud (especially when combined with Entangle, Web, Spike Stones, and most importantly Spiritual Weapon) is one the most effective spells in the game. One of the nice things about it is that it seems to go right through Spell Resistance, and the fact that it lingers in the area for several rounds ( and the effects linger for several rounds after the "victims" leave the cloud ) make it a good spell for weakening just about anything or anybody. Good luck !!
The Royal Canadian

 

I totally agree one should not go around attacking people without confirmation. That is why I mentioned the part about the adults looking exactly like the "wanted" posters. To me, that is confirmation. It is ridiculous that these "rescuers" look exactly like the slavers described by the authorities in physical characteristics, class, and number. There are only two ways that could happen: 1) the rescuers are using some kind of illusion to appear exactly like the slavers. I cannot think of any reason they would do that, since it would not trick the slavers themselves. And even if it did, the rescuers would remove the illusion after the rescue attempt. If the rescue had just occurred and they didn't have time to remove it yet, the real slaver's bodies would still be there.
2) The Viscount wanted the rescuers killed, and set me up to do it by describing them as slavers. That makes no sense, since all of the other quests he gives out advance lawful-good causes.
Anyway, even if someone could come up with a good argument that either 1) or 2) is what actually occurred, a lawful society like Verbobonc would allow that as a defense. Would they really convict somebody who killed people who had magically altered themselves to look like super bad guys?

In a way, the problem with this quest is that the descriptions of the slavers by the Viscount is so well-done. Usually, one gets some generic description like "look for a band of rogues and a sorceress" or something. Then you could never be sure if some group of people was really the right one without dialog. In this case, we get very detailed descriptions and even a picture. That means it is very easy to tell that yes, these are in fact the people you are looking for, without dialog. And from the role-playing perspective, most would agree that after hearing the Viscount make it very clear that this is by far the most dangerous group of bad-guys you will have encountered in the game, any party of adventurers who decides to just walk up to a group exactly matching the description and say "excuse me, are you the slaver's I"m looking for?" has just rolled a "1" on their Wisdom check.

I understand the quest author's desire to make the battle more challenging by preventing an ambush. The problem is that the way he has gone about it is not consistent with the role-playing aspect of the story. If you think about it, there are other places in the game where an ambush is prevented for exactly the same reason, but using other, more internally-consistent, means. The final fight in the original moathouse comes to mind, when the guard runs off and warns everybody you are coming. Or the fight right after that when your party is ambushed right as soon as you go through the moathouse door.
A better way to prevent ambush of the slavers would be to put them in an enclosed space, like one of the caves in Hickory Branch, so that they could attack you as soon as you enter. Then there wouldn't be this nonsense about rescuers who look exactly like the bad guys.

Thanks for the tips!

 

I had a couple of other minor issues:
One is when I approach the slavers with an NPC, they do nothing. When I first saw them, I decided to send Kella on a suicide mission just to do some reconnaissance, and put everyone else in my party way in the upper-left corner of the map. She walked right up and talked to them, and all they did was say "Look behind you!" because I had Darley in the party. That was funny, since Darley was way across the map!

Speaking of Darley, she is in her human form for me, but everyone else in town can tell she's a demon. But when I cast "True Seeing" on my cleric, nothing happens. Does that spell work in TOEE, or am I misunderstanding what it is supposed to do?

Finally, I killed the Hextor cell on the first level of the temple, but am unable to report that to the Palor priest. I also killed the Hextors in the ruins, and the only thing the priest will let me report is about that. I know that you can't get the Hextor quest if you kill the guys in the ruins first, but if you kill them after you already got the temple Hextor quest, shouldn't you be able to report it?

As I said before, I love the mod!

 

Took me long enough, but I finally played the new Verbobonc content - great stuff!

 

For Darley I guess everyone has a built in True Seeing to detect she is in fact a demon. Otherwise you can figure it is a hard coded feature on TOEE.

For the quest-Depends on what version you are playing. 6.0 has that bug, but that was supposedly fixed in 6.01. Hope that helps you some.

 

Gaear,
Thanks for the reply. OK, I'll admit that it is impossible to determine that the group "exactly" matched the description. I did not think of the excellent portraits as photographs, but as sketches - from eye-witness accounts, previous arrests of the suspects, or something of that nature. Your assertion that this is actually a departure from the role-playing is reasonable. But I still maintain that the original description was detailed enough that it is extremely unlikely that a set of rescuers would match that description. And it is not just that they matched the description (which is how you make it sound in your police-officer scenario) - it is that they matched the description and were with the missing kids in an isolated, haunted area. If they were really rescuers, why were they in an area that is only accessible from one side in an area that is considered haunted by area residents? As soon as they made the rescue they would leave immediately. If they had just knocked off the slavers, there would be evidence of the battle there, as the slavers would not just flee en-mass. They are not the run-away type. I think a jury would agree that while attacking the rescuers was a massive error, it was reasonable for the authorized pursuers to have made that mistake and not convict them of murder.

I also disagree that putting the slavers in a cave would be re-doing an old scenario.
That is no more true than putting them in their present location is re-doing the scenario that already took place in that location. And it wouldn't have to be a cave. Any location that is enclosed would work - the moathouse courtyard is an example of somewhere that meets the requirement but is not a cave.

Finally, you have to understand that even if the cut-scene is viewed as a departure from the role-playing, the player sees it. That same player sees the character portraits during the battle. They do match "exactly". So even if the characters don't know for sure that the group is the right one, even a player who launches a surprise attack sees these portraits, and then the _player_ is sure that they are the right group, even if the characters are not.


I realize that this scenario took a great deal of work, and I appreciate all of the effort you folks have done to make TOEE more enjoyable.

 

Nobody really knows where the slavers are, you find them at EM.
The rescuers might have found them elsewhere and then chosen to go to EM to heal up before going back with the children.
About the ambush, the slavers/rescuers are at a set place camping and you are moving in on them, wouldn't it be more likely that they ambush you?