Co8 5.6.0 BETA Balance

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Gaear, Oct 2, 2009.

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  1. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt Veteran Member

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    Would it be maybe possible to have two different versions - a nerfed and an un-nerfed one, and if the player decides to accept them, replace the regular with the nerfed one, somehow?

    I don't know much about TOEE modding, but it sounds like sth that could possibly work.
     
  2. Kneller1

    Kneller1 Established Member

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    I don't really think they should be nerfed; just think of them as the fracragh of evil parties. Bloody effective but removes some challenge in the game. The player is free to chose to use them if he wants (even though it is cheating really)
     
  3. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    That was more or less why we left them as-is. Plus there'd be no real fair way to nerf them yet still make them fell like you had a giant or troll helping you out instead of some other random fighter or barbarian.
     
  4. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt Veteran Member

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    Well, the Oolghrist bonus was supposed to be that temple trolls don't attack you/side with you? Although, it seems that doesn't work anymore.
     
  5. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    So here's a wacky, probably impossible to do idea to try and balance the game:

    1) Make crafting actually take time (brewing a potion takes 1 day, everything else takes 1 day per 1000gp spent on crafting. Technically it's 8 hours, but you can only spend 8 hours per day crafting, so the result is pretty close.)

    2) Set a time limit. Say the party has 3 months (or whatever we decide is fair) in-game to defeat Zuggy before she breaks free and covers the world in mold (or whatever her master plan is. I've never been quite sure.)

    The time limit would make players think long and hard about how much crafting they do. (Making sure everyone in the party has a weapon that can hurt the nastier baddies should be easily doable. Making Holy-Icy-Shocking-Flaming Burst weapons for everyone is likely to run out the clock.) It would also up the difficulty by encouraging the player to push on further into the various dungeons before resting. And it would also force them to spend money on things like Remove Disease at lower levels instead of simply resting until the diseased character finally makes their saving throws and shakes it off.

    I realize this would probably be nightmare to try to implement, if it's even possible. But I figured I'd throw it out there.
     
  6. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

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    I think you may have just started a "I can beat ToEE in XXX game days" competition.

    I know you put 3 months out there as an example, but if we were to implement this, we need some amount of time that a party could realistically go from level 1 no-bodies to god killers. 3 months may be too short, or else I would rule the world. Then again, it is all based on D&D rules and not reality.
     
  7. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt Veteran Member

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    I don't think she HAS a master plan as of TOEE. She's hopelessly sealed in the temple, trying to break free, which could take years. The Temple does do some nasty stuff around the area, but it's nothing revolting like short-term world domination. So, there's a plenty of reasons to not have a time limit (or at least not one that's too strict).

    Something needs to be done about the crafting though. I dunno, maybe a chance to curse or ruin the item at crafting? :yes: TOEE has no cursed items, making Remove Curse a lot less useful.
     
  8. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Folks
    Here is my take on game balance. As I see it there are two things that effect game balance.
    1.) The ability to quickly (but not quite RAW) craft powerful magic weapons
    2.) The ability to rise above 10th Level (it must be pointed out that Vanilla lets you achieve 11th Level)
    Either one is enough to make the game less challanging at the end of the game (the Nodes, etc...), but the two combined make the game almost a pushover. As a test, I took a group as far as I could (I couldn't get Burne to tell me what was needed to destroy the Orb) without crafting anything (to include scrolls, potions, and wands). The same group that in Vanilla (I copied the Player Files when I activated 5.6) needed to regroup in Nulb before returning to fight the Balor (they were 10th and 11th level), had no problem clearing the entire Fire Node in one trip, and didn't even take a lot of damage.

    I think that in order to make the game more challanging, two things need to be done.
    1.) The amount of experience points given out needs to be reduced so that a party is no higher than 10th Level when they fight the Balor and Zuggtmoy.
    2.) There needs to be a limit put on crafting. I like Kalshane's idea of a time limit. If I remember correctly, in the DM's notes to the PnP module, there was a "history" of some of the NPCs you meet ( Otis, the Canoness, etc...). In that "history" while Otis and Y'dey were trying to either kill Zuggtmoy or keep her sealed up, another party entered the temple, proceded to "hack 'n slash" their way through most (if not all) of the temple, but in so doing, set Zuggtmoy free. maybe the way to introduce the "time limit" is to have Kentor Nevitts, Terjon, Burne, or Jaroo warn the PCs that this party is on the way, and that they (the PCs) need to get the situation "resolved" before this other group shows up.
    The Royal Canadian
     
  9. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt Veteran Member

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    ^ Nice idea about the party, although then, hopefully, there'll be a chance to meet them in-game, and eliminate if need be, to extend the game time restriction ;)
     
  10. blackwind

    blackwind Established Member

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    I played vanilla for over a year before I discovered you fine folks. Honestly vanilla wasn't very balance had the lv 10 cap not been there I'm sure I would of finished the game at 12-13th level. What you folks have done with many of fights has made the game much more enjoyable. I would also suggest that the non-balor guardians and Zuggtmoy should be tweaked with but I wouldn't worry about the fact people are over 10th level.
     
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