Co8 5.6.0 BETA Balance

Hey, it could be worse. You could be called an "Oakland Raider". oke:

(A notorious American Football team)

Seriously, it's based on your total number of posts. The more posts you make, the different "rankings" you get from the default setting. You can play around with this and do your own title from the User CP section.

 

Fixed.

 

You know, looking at the module, just about every mob is a slob compared to what's presently in ToEE.

e.g.:

• Grank's bandits -
  • Module: Level 0 nothings, 1HD (4 hp), who flee when injured.
  • CRPG: Level 8 rogues, 18 STR, 20 DEX, 18 CON, who now drink potions of heroism.

• Scorpp -
  • module: 8 HD (44 HP );
  • CRPG: 12 HD + 2 fighter levels (100 HP+?).

• Elite Bugbear Leaders from hell -
  • module: 4 HD (24 HP), +1 strength bonus to damage;
  • CRPG: 3 HD + 10 FTR levels, Con bonus +3 (~100 HP), +5 STR bonus

And so on...

It seems like the original module was built more like an endurance test, compared to the CRPG.

 

Ah, but that's the key, isn't it? When you play the p'n'p module, the DM will do what is necessary and common sense if you pack up and leave for 3-4 days to rest, craft, level up, do side quests, etc. The CRPG just sits there waiting for you to come back...

 

You could decrease the annoyance of having to travel between and Nulb and the temple by adding a merchant to the temple area.

 

There already is one - for non-good parties (or maybe only evil parties). He hangs out with his buddies in the Tower if you were kind enough to rescue him.

 

It's a game. Not a grind. That aspect is fine the way it is.

 

please tell me who

 

Thanks Gaear, where can out more about this new version? NVM I found a link.

 

Hi Gaear
Just finished with a CG party of 5 plus Meleny and Elmo. Elmo, the fighter, and the Rogue/Wizard were 13th Level going into the final fight, the crafters (Druid, Cleric, Wizard, and Meleny) were 12th. For crafting, everyone had a +3 Holy weapon with Shocking Burst. Elmo, the Cleric (Corellon Larathean), and the Rogue/Wizard (Longbow) also had Icy burst on their weapons. The Cleric had +3 Mithral Plate and a +3 Steel Tower Shield. The wizards, Druid and Fighter all had +3 Mithral or Darkwood Bucklers. The only other items I crafted were a Belt of Giant Strength +6, a Helm of Read Magic, and a Wand of Stoneskin.
Experience point totals ranged from 75,000 to 86,000 to include killing Iuz (what can I say, I have a grudge against evil dieties who try to crash my party), and the Evil Retribution party in Nulb. I didn't do any EXP farming (other than fighting any evil random encounters that I stumbled upon). For what it's worth, the monsters I encountered "on the road" were 3 Lizardmen, 4 Wolves, 14 Hobgoblins, 9 Dire Rats, 6 Gnolls, 4 Giant Frogs, 9 Goblins, 3 Ettins, 8 Giant Lizards, 21 Trolls (to include and encounter with one group of 8), 6 Ogres, and 1 Owlbear.
My recommendation would be to balance the game by toning down some of the fights "outside" the temple. The bugbears in the Moathouse are a royal P.I.T.A., usually requiring a couple of resets to finish. The Fish Story in Nulb is another encounter that can overwhelm a party fairly quickly. Even the Assassin and "Retribution" fight in Nulb can be overwhelming at lower levels unless you get really lucky. If you want to cut down on the crafting, take the armor off the bugbears, gnolls, hobgoblins, and goblins. After all the armor that is sized for a 350 pound, 7 foot tall bugbear isn't going to fit many humans without extensive modifications: thereby reducing it's "resell value".
The Royal Canadian

 

I found the Bugbears fairly easy. I did get whacked for one big hit, but luckily it was on my Dwarf Fighter. Otherwise I controlled the fight with a well-placed web spell after my Rogue had scoped out the room.

I recall Imeryds Run being a difficult fight, but I was able to compartmentalise it into 3 separate fights and to dispatch the Behemoth King Frog fairly quickly.

Prior to the Temple the hardest fights are Retribution (largely due to the fact that you can't use tactics), the Giant/Bear at Emridy Meadows (due to Giant not patrolling), and Waterside Hostel, although I suppose it depends somewhat on what order you take the fights in. I did the Waterside when I first arrived at Nulb, which made that harder, but maybe some later fights easier.

So far I took whatever randoms were thrown my way at low level (2-4), and have ignored them where possible since (and I have a Ranger with maxed Survival). No NPCs used, just a Fighter, a Rogue/Fighter*, a Cleric, a Ranger* & a Wizard. If I was starting again I'd replace the *s with a Druid & a Rogue/Ranger.

Apart from Retribution you can plan the fight and so I don't think they need to be toned down.

 

I haven't had a chance to play it all the way through yet. However I have played probably to many of these games. My experiance is if you simply stick to the main story line and ignore most of the side quests ( I know it is hard to believe but some people actually do that) the party usually ends up hitting the max level just near the end of the game. However if your like me and do everthing and go everwhere you can I have yet to play a game where I didn't max out the party level quite a bit before the end of the game and no I don't do EXP farming. As a game designer they figure some people will simply be trying to beat the game ASAP so the game is balanced that way.

 

Hi Thorsson

The Royal Canadian

 

In my battle the Giant escaped from Web, but then the Grease got him, which allowed me to finish the Bear and damage him before he hit the group. Web doesn't come until level 3. I was able to beat him in the original game, the bear being dealt with separately, with a party of 3 (although it did include a Druid with Entangle) at level 1. With them both together don't think that would be possible though. That's why I said it's difficult. I had to do a lot more stuff prior to going to the Meadows.

Regarding the bugbears, yes some do break free after raging, but I'd webbed the corridor and had my melee guys waiting for them to run past and collect AoOs. I didn't get hit very much. Maybe I was lucky.

Retribution I did leave to the last thing in Nulb, and I was at level 6 in full health. The hardest bit was getting the Wizard deafened.

 

in imerdys i ended up fighting the lizardmen (with their hag @100HP), the king frog, AND the giant lark at once... it was a tough battle. but with the right use of spells (enlarge person for reach, plus grase, and web to limit enemy movement and farm attacks of opportunity, and glitterdust to blind them) I was able to prevail...

I think part of the "problem" is that there are more encounters and enemies now. So you end up leveling faster. Or maybe the XP system overhaul has to do with it... if everyone is ending level 14-15, why not bump up the power of the end game encounter to match? it would actually make sense, because for a goddess she is pathetically weak... (being killed by level 10 party is just sad)...

BTW, farming random encounter = best money around... here is how.
1 character has max appraise, give it glasses of +2 circumstance to appraise and cast +4 int buff on him.. higher appraise = more money.
Now have your crafters make some wonderous items, and sell those to someone who pays "well" for them (aka, appropriate merchant, like rufus the wizard in his tower for circlets of intelligence)... you are using XP + cash to make an item selling for more cash... after a few crafting (and letting the crafters fall a few levels behind), you can kit everyone with all the +6 items they need... which, btw, no longer have a caster level crafting requirement...

Another issue is that the crafting system does NOT allow you to upgrade items (no upgrading your +2 dex gloves to +4 or +6), which the PnP rules explicitly allow.

btw, the vest of escape is the best item in the game by far.
1. Always on freedom of movement. (although it does not work with grease)
2. Cheap
3. Slotless (ok, it takes the lockpicks slot... and functions AS masterwork lockpicks... better than laraths ring, I sold it and got a vest of escape instead of it for each party member)
4. requires grease and knock, not freedom of movement to craft

I had one for every single party member (oddly enough, it does not work on grease, i still trip... and the travel domain ability of temp freedom of movement also does not work "right" I think).
Anyways, dump a web (which needs no anchoring in TOEE) and grease and an enlarge and enjoy the slaughter. Attacks of opportunity for the win.