cleric issue

:yes:
Actually, i think turning should be based more on wisdom, since it's the will of the cleric, not a strong personality which should be applying...
but i suppose that the game designers wanted to have cleric to be a little bit difficult to play, due all they advantages they have.

Yep, that and the fact that they are a reserved people, expecting disdain and aggresion from other races (due their blood lineage), or simply by being really nasty like the orc part.

All the "mental" attributes (intelligence, wisdom and charisma), are tricky, since those attributes are much more deeper or complicated, and change from race to race and gender and, of course, players interpretations

 

so as you can see they've done it by the book

 

Yes, i know.

I meant precisely the new book rules...in 3º ed there's no attribute prerequisites, unless older editions.

So, to compensate that, i think that the designers went for a more wide need of attributes.

As i said, IMO turning should be a wisdom based ability, but then being a cleric would need only a good wisdom score, and that leaves another good one roll for more physical attributes thus making a fighter a bit useless. (the more versatile the character the more good roll and abilitys they need)

Turning being charisma based, makes the player put another good roll on mental attributes, emphazining the fact that a cleric is more a spiritual/mental oriented character than a fighter.(and a priest of any alignment/deity should be vehement enough to be listened, for example, in pnp games is very common that clerics have some skill points in perform: preaching)

Anyways, it works good, i like the "zealous healer" rol for my clerics.

 

So turning undead depends on how pretty you are? I kid.

I got the impression (from NWN2) that charisma effects your gestures for sorcery and such as well. Likewise for turning undead perhaps, although I dont fully understand what turning undead actually is. I'm begining to get confused now, taking into consideration dexterity and all.

 

It might be useful to read the basic SRD files regarding character creation. Although not all of them have been translated faithfully into ToEE, most have. Charisma is important for clerics you expect to handle undead... you can always choose to have a cleric/tank kind of character, and in that case strength and constitution are important stats. But as a rule of thumb, you should never have a cleric with a penalty on charisma related rolls...

And charisma is 'force of character', mostly. Napoleon, Cesar and Alexander weren't necessarily beautiful, but they were great leaders because of their capacity to encourage their troops, to convince them of their overwhelming capacity to triumph.

That's why charisma is relevant for sorcerors (takes a huge amount of self-confidence to warp the structure of the universe), bards and paladins...

 

I had a cleric in PnP dnd with an 8 (-1) in charisma once. Another person rolled up the character and I inherited him. Basically worthless for turning undead, evening with the Sun domain. Always seemed to roll crappy dice on the turning checks. But by level 17 it didn't matter.

 

A good cleric with real good turning is essential because there are a LOT of undead in the game. Make a really good cleric somehow. It really helps.

 

Yep, you need to have at least decent Wis and Cha.

 

My clerics usually are a backup fighter.
I usually put the higher score in wisdom, and down to charisma, strength, constitution, dexterity and intelligence in that order.

If i get two rolls equal or above 16, i put the higher in strength, and then the others, since at first levels, wisdom doesn't get too much involved. Later with the 4º lvl and 8º lvl upgrades i raise wisdom (and a few crafted items too)

i usually make human clerics, cos the extra feat it's really useful; basically IMO there's two ways of clerics, the combat oriented tank buffer, and the magic oriented defender healer.

-Kord as deity because i like it and buy the weapon proficience: Greatsword with the extra human feat; or Heironeous for the War Domain (longsword proficiency and focus) and buy two weapon fighting (also it has better domains than Kord), and mostly Buffering spells.

-Or the mystical one could be Pelor Deity, with improved turning, dodge and spell penetration/improved, craft magic items/armor, mostly benefical spells (like remove blindness, remove fear etc etc), a good option also is Farlaghn, for the turning elemental creatures.

The first time i've played (it was Vanilla ToEE), the cleric was from Kord, and equipped him the Frost brand, without buffing him, he killed all by himself (a few healins in the way) Iuz, Hedrack and a Ettin. No Fragarach or Scather.
It had 20 strength (crafted gauntlets +2), 18 wisdom (raised with 4 and 8 bonus levl), and 16 charisma.

 

I bet i've rolled over a 100 times to get good all-around scores to make a really good, strong fighting/healing/turning cleric, but it's worth it. Don't skimp on the cleric, make it a superstar and you'll be glad you did.

 

dang i made a druid instead...

 

Keep the druid - they're awesome summoners and quite possibly the best all-around crafters in the game.

I have to admit - I have never used the turn undead ability even once in TOEE. That's probably because I always build my cleric to be a weapon crafter (Holy and/or Law domain) and use him/her as a buffer/healer/mage defender. Therefore, I always put more emphasis on my cleric having decent str and con over charisma - but I don't gimp it entirely. I usually end up with from 12 to 14 depending on the rolls.

 

why don't you use the all 18s cheat to stat your character but instead of going all 18's go whatever you want. I do that with my characters and roll a few times to get a dump stat - eg a 5 for my halforc's int

 

Or, you could generate one or more new characters. Do not add them to a party, yet. Close and exit the game. Download and use a trainer to change their stats. Go back in to the game, make a party and add the [edited] characters to the party.

Ferros' ToEE Character Editor v0.7

 

I'm not familiar with the all 18 thing and I don't really want a generator. I could use the console, but I like to have a collection of legal pc's i've rolled-up. I save them in MyDocuments and use them for "regulation" fair'n'square games, which I don't do very often. However, Fruella is a permanent protos/console/dlg cheat, so I basically cheat all the time.