Cleaning Up Hommlet

Didn't we all agree that alignments shouldn't constrain your choices?

As for the other Hommlet modifications, I like that Furnok will now be hustling outside, and the Church/Grove/Town Hall always did seem too empty.

 

Humm, i see that the general thinking it's: evil equals slay/threaten.
A LE charcter would probably help Calmert and Terjon, a NE would probably help Bing, to get benefits (masterwork items), maybe all the "marriying" quests would be ignored.
Over all, evil charcters would do things for interest.

I know it could be a pain, but what if instead removing MORE options for evil players, a dialog option to claim a reward it's added?

"I've got the lotus, Jaroo...but it was difficult to find..." something like that could suit neutral PCs too.

Or be autentically devilish, and make the illness of Bing and Amii treated with the same stuff which can be found only once thru the game...
what would you do? Save the merchant cos he could make masterwork items? or save the little poor girl cos you're good? :transform

 

i thought you where changing the options...what you're doing is a "cosmetic" change, then. That's ok and cool

But don't get too concerned about evil people having little to do in Hommlet, after all, when you leave it, the game become more richer in details for evil than good, with all the Nulb n Temple quests.
I usually play neutral/chaotic good charcters (and not because of damned Fragarach), those two alignments get the better of the game, cos you can do almost all the quests without failing to roleplay your party...but a LG party would have problems in Nulb/Temple; maybe something could be done about that. Better treatment than average in Hommlet? Better prices? Calmert joining to ask for donations in the temple?

 

@Gaear:

I think what you're offering would take a lot of work to facilitate properly and uniformly. Particularly, spacing out all the dialogue nodes so that there's enough room to add new lines that check for alignment in the first place. But if you have the time for it, then go ahead. Anything that makes the game recognize and react to your characters' attributes and choices is for the best.

 

If I had to choose between not being able to take on the quests and being able to take the quests with good guy dialogue, I'd choose the latter.

 

Ideally, evil characters would do different quests from good ones. It's like an evil party joining the Temple - this is something that good characters ostensibly wouldn't do (unless it's just a cover), but evil characters could stand to make some real money and power from it.

The problem with this is that most of the quests in Hommlet are FedEx quests that presume that the party will step in helpfully because some random townsperson has some random problem that needs an outside touch, and they're designed to get the party to second level without throwing the group into dangerous combats for 1st-level characters (until the Deklo Grove).

To address this, evil characters need:
* Their own motivation for doing various quests around town in certain ways. For instance, an evil character will blackmail the thieving farmer, and will keep Black Jay's wedding ring unless Black Jay offers to cough up something valuable in return. Evil characters will gladly blackmail the traders if they can get something good out of it. They are unlikely to become involved in domestic disputes unless they are either paid or promised some sort of worthwhile recompense. The entire focus of the marriage subplot with Meleny needs a new set of dialogs for an evil character.
* Evil characters should be able to work into the confidence of the various spy groups in the village. In the original module, the village of Hommlet is interesting to adventurers not just because of the shops and the history, but because it becomes clear with some digging that there are spies in the town who are working for some greater evil power. Evil characters would be interested in digging up spies not to expose them and protect the community, but to see if they can find a better offer for makin' money and power.
* Since Hommlet is primarily a good community, it has little in the way of services for evil characters. They are unlikely to visit the temple, interact meaningfully with the druid, or fit in with the locals.

All that said, if I were really to overhaul the game to accommodate evil characters from the get-go, my solution would be fairly labor intensive: I'd turn Nulb into the starting entry point for evil characters, expand its quests and material to allow evil characters some first-level work, and make Hommlet their second stop (unless they make friends and ally with the temple). In this fashion, Nulb serves as an evil-party counterpart to Hommlet, a starting point where they can rub shoulders with people of similar (im)moral character.

 

Hmm... Nulb as a starting area idea is brilliant! It'll surely
add a RP flavour as well as some novelty into the game.
Honestly, I can't wait for the new version of Co8. If you need
me to do any inventory icons or armour just ask.

 

Hm, I guess I forgot to keep an Eye on this thread

Anyway, my 2cp would be that we need to determine what we think Party and Character alignment mean to us before we start editing.

Certain things (certain quest acceptances and solutions) should be heavier on Party alignment (after all, the whole party has to go along with it). While one character may be interacting with the NPCs, that character to some degree represents the party as a whole.

Other things, like class combinations, specific use of items and spells, specific dialogs, etc. would be best focused on Character alignment. After all, some parts of the quest may require a certain set of Skills, and the use of them should be governed by the character's alignment.

And, of course, we should define what *we* mean the different alignments to mean. And publish that "code." No need to be overly specific, just enough so that Paladins falling and characters able/unable to take certain dialog paths or actions makes sense *without* having to post-justify or debate endlessly.

Again, just my take on the situation.

No thoughts on Nulb right now; it sounds interesting. Of course, anything that promises the next play-through can be different is interesting. It might be fun starting good characters in Nulb and making them get frustrated enough to just leave for ommlet.

--thearioch

 

Any evil changes would have to start/involve Lareth and how he is handled. Expanding Nulb and the brothel, Mona, waterside inn, etc is the way to go. But, I think this would be a massive effort involving several people and a lot of dlg changes. I got Lareth to join and got to level 3 and got Smigmail to join, but it pretty much ended there. The goal was to make Lareth the highpriest, but it didn't work out. But, it can be done.

By the way, Lodriss is lawful evil and the tavern would be a good place for evil doings. After all, she owns the joint.