Circle of Eight Modpack 5.9.x/5.9.xNC General Commentary & Discussion Thread

Look at my profile. I tell ya right where to find them there.

 

General Ghoul, thanks for that invaluable trick on how to get more platinum pieces from Prince Thrommel's envoy. I will use that trick from now on. I was very strapped for money at that stage of the game because I had done so much item crafting up until then.

Yes, the fighter who cleaved through the wall did so with a ranseur.

The D&D 3.5 SRD states:

The right column in the above table shows the damage that a weapon will do if wielded by a character under the effect of either the Enlarge Person spell or the Righteous Might spell. The left column is the damage that the weapon normally does.

For me, the most difficult combats in the game were (in order of difficulty):
1. 6 Noble Salamanders guarding the chest in the Fire Node.
2. 4 Ice Tyrants in the Water Node.
3. White Dragon
4. Lerrick's defensive sqaure
5. the slave traders
6. Balor Guardian and 2 Efreeti
7. Hezrou Guardian.
8. 2 Gorgons in the Earth Node.
I think that ALL combats in the game are easy to win (except for the 6 Noble Salamanders, 4 Ice Tyrants, and White Dragon listed above). I think that the Ogre Shamen and the Drow are pathetically weak and easy to defeat! The player gets WAY too much XP from killing the Drow and yet the Drow are one of the weakest monsters in the game! The Elemental Nodes are WAY too easy (except for the 6 Noble Salamanders, the 4 Ice Tyrants, the Hezrou Guardian, and the Gorgons)! The Guardians of the Earth, Air, and Fire Nodes could do with a LOT of beefing up! The Dragon in the Verbobonc mod is WAY too easy to kill! I recommend that the Dragon gets beefed up BIG time! The slave traders could do with significant beefing up to make that combat challenging (yet the player already receives an INSANE amount of XP for killing them!). Darlia and Lerrick and the Dwarf Bodyguards and Barkinar and Hedrack and Senshock and Falrinth and Smigmal and the 2 Smigmal Assasssin Henchmen could all do with a LOT more beefing up!

I think that it is silly the way Barkinar walks around the Greater Temple all by his lonesome. This allows the player to slaughter Barkinar WAY too easily! Surely the Greater Temple would be aware of the carnage being wreaked in the levels above by the player's party and they would prepare a desperate last stand to fend off the infidels! Is there any chance that you might incorporate a new reactive Greater Temple mod to the game?

The Wakizashi +1 is already identified when the player loots it from Darlia's corpse.

The Staff of Striking is already identified when the player loots it from Lerrick's corpse.

Jylee has a typo in his dialogue (see screenshot below):
"I can offer you permamnent lodging."

The Nulb Woman who gives the player's party mindfire (i.e. Oil of ..........) has a typo in her dialogue (see screenshot below):
"[The woman seems to blink away, and suddenly other shadowy forms fill the room, some vaguley familiar, all repeating the same word.]

The Masterwork Verbobonc Shield (that the player receives from Wilfrick) has a typo in its long description (see screenshot below):
"has been adorned with the emblem of the Verbebonc Guard."

Below are 2 screenshots of the heartbeat spell that Senshock casts in the Bizaar of the Bizarre when Senshock isn't a vendor (i.e. the player killed Senshock in the Greater Temple of Elemental Evil).

I was able to get and complete all of the quests in the Verbobonc 2.0 mod except for the Building Credit quest and the Under Surveillance quest. Is the reason why I was not able to get the Building Credit quest because I payed for the Castle of the Lords in full up front in one payment? If not, then how do I initiate the Building Credit quest?

I got the Under Surveillance quest "mentioned" but I was unable to accept or complete that quest. I talked to Lerrick and Darlia about whether they were having me followed. Then I saw a scarlet-cloaked person leaving my room upstairs in Jylee's Inn. How do I accept and complete this quest?

The only way that I was able to get the Catching the 'Cousin' quest was to murder a Verbobonc Guard (even though my party is Lawful Good). Is that the only way to get that quest?

I take it that if the player has already killed Mother (Swamp Denizen) or if the player doesn't have a Teleport spell ready to cast and if the player botches the Framework of a Murder quest, then the player's characters are doomed to die?

After killing Darlia, all of the Scarlet Brotherhood were KOS except for the Maitre'd and the other NPC on the ground floor of Zeebel's Maroon Moon. When I talk to Maitre'd, he says: "You'd better have eyes in the back of your head. The Brotherhood is after YOU now." But nothing happens after that involving the Scarlet Brotherhood exacting revenge on my party. Is anything else supposed to happen after that? If so, how do I trigger it?

 

I met the elven party the next week, and did the same thing, except this time I had a dominated troll with me. He met an untimely death in the fire temple, so i looted his body as well for the extra goodies!

 

Was your character encumbered when you took that? I've seen the game to do that a plenty of times - it doesn't seem to have a line for decreased Dex bonus to AC due to encumberment, so it interprets a random item equipped to be causing it.

 

Sorry Ausdoerrt, I don't know. I didn't pay attention to encumbrance at the time.

Well, all of my characters died about 30 seconds after I was released by that Nulb Woman (who sounded exactly like Mother Screng), so I assumed that the player's party wouldn't make it in time if they travelled by foot to the moathouse respawn.
Considering that Mother (Swamp Denizen) is evil and is the spitting image of a smaller version of Zuggtmoy, that surely is reason enough for a lawful good party to send her back to the foul swamp water from whence she cameth.

As indeed my game did today. I want to thank the Co8 team for significantly increasing the playing time of this computer game. I was surprised at how short a game the vanilla version of the game was. The highlights of the game for me were the Moathouse, Hickory Branch, the Nulb house ambush, the Elemental Temples, the Greater Temple (i.e. dungeon level 4 of the Temple of Elemental Evil), Imeryds Run, Verbobonc and the Elemental Nodes.
I have never been so disappointed with the ending of a computer game as I am with this one - I didn't even get to fight Zuggtmoy with the choices that I made in the conversation with the Old Woman the first time that I finished the game.
I think that item crafting makes this game WAY too easy! I'm almost tempted to recommend that item crafting and reach weapons (except for the spiked chain) be removed from the game (where opponents could still use reach weapons as long as the weapons didn't appear as loot on their corpses).
The A.I of opponents in this game is competent at low character levels but is SO easy to beat at the higher character levels!

I'd like to see some game difficulty settings introduced to the game (other than the option to give monsters maximum HP). That way, new players who are finding the game too difficult could choose the easiest game difficulty setting, while veteran players who are looking for a challenge could choose the most difficult game difficulty setting. It would be a win/win situation. Is it possible to add an optional game setting to the game where the player can choose the XP reward multiplier value anywhere from x1 to x0.1? (I know how to do that manually by editing the relevant file - what I mean is an ingame optional setting that the player can change (so that new players are able to use it)).

I think that the low character levels are the most fun and difficult time in the game. That's why I would like to see all of the new content taken out of the Temple of Elemental Evil module and put into a new module. This way, Hickory Branch could remain content for a party of 4th to 6th level characters, and Verbobonc wouldn't have to be made for such high level characters (Gaear was complaining about how Verbobonc Guards are SO much higher level than Hommlet guards, and how high level combats expose the limitations with the gameplay of D&D 3.5.

After I killed Wilfrick, when I returned to Verbobonc, a Verbobonc Guard immediately told me that I was under arrest (even though the whole point of killing Wilfrick in Welkwood Bog was so that there would be no witnesses or anybody to trace the killing back to the player's party). I chose not to surrender, and then the Verbobonc Guards left me alone to walk the streets of Verbobonc with impunity. I examined my reputations in the logbook, and I had the Scarlet Assassin and Constable Killer reputations (even though I had only killed 1 Verbobonc Guard in Verbobonc. The game is including all of the Verbobonc Guards in Welkwood Bog as legitimate characters for determining whether the player gets the Constable Killer reputation. I think that the game should not be including them.

Wilfrick's defensive square was the most enjoyable combat in the game for me because it was a slaughterfest. They died SO easily! They were a perfect target for the Cloudkill spell (and all other area effect damage spells).

I never encountered the random encounter of "x 12 Door" that General Ghoul and another player reported encountering.

Rufus' Silver Breastplate +1 is already identified when the player loots it from his corpse.

The 2 Masterwork Kamas that a Cleric of Pelor has in the Cathedral of Pelor ruins are only worth approximately 60 GP (see screenshot below). Considering that they are masterwork weapons, they are supposed to be worth 300 GP plus the price of a normal Kama. The Mastework Quarterstaff that another Cleric of Pelor has in the ruins seems to be slightly undervalued.

Terjon's Shield +5 is only worth approximately 1100 GP (see screenshot below). The shield is supposed to be worth thousands more GP. Will you please add the information that the shield is a metal shield in its long description?

The D&D 3.5 SRD states:

When my wizard cast Horrid Wilting on Zuggtmoy, Zuggtmoy took no damage (see screenshot below). Her Damage Resistance (10/-) was applied 3 times (when it should only have been applied once), and her Damage Reduction (20/Holy;Cold) was also applied to the spell damage (when I believe that it shouldn't have been applied because I believe it is supposed to apply for weapon damage only). Considering that the spell Horrid Wilting is specifically designed to damage plants (like Zuggtmoy), I thought it silly that Zuggtmoy was immune to the spell.

The Horrid Wilting spell only did d6 damage to Zuggtmoy (see screenshot below). The spell is supposed to do d8 damage to Zuggtmoy because she is a plant creature (see quote above).

Also, the spell Horrid Wilting appeared as ~Horrid Wilting~[]! in the Rolls History interface (see screenshot below).

The D&D 3.5 SRD states:

In this computer game, the attacker always attempts a Mirror Image check when attacking an opponent under the effect of the Mirror Image spell. Below is a screenshot showing that my fighter is hitting the opponent OR a mirror image with a successful Mirror Image check. The game shouldn't be making a Mirror Image check. The game should be rolling to see which random target is hit (i.e. the opponent or one of the mirror images).

Is the Co8 team ever going to consider having the Circle of Eight wizards actually in the Circle of Eight Modpack NC? The Circle of Eight wizards are my favourite thing about the World of Greyhawk campaign setting. I would LOVE to meet or fight them in this computer game! I think that they would be the ultimate opponents for the final combat in the game for evil-aligned parties. It would certainly make a LOT more players play evil parties in the game if they knew that they would be fighting the Circle of Eight wizards at the end of the game!

 

Zuggtmoy isn't a plant. She's a demon. So horrid wilting shouldn't necessarily affect her like a plant, unless it's specifically stated that she should be treated as a plant. The stats I've been able to find online don't say anything like that, though. I can try to see if I can get a look at the demonomicon or other places that have her official 3rd edition stats, though. Or perhaps someone else has access.

The damage resistance and reduction sounds improper, though.

 

Additionally, funguses (fungi) are not plants. Plants manufacture their own food from sunlight, whereas funguses, like animals, eat other living (dead) things for sustenance.

 

In 3.5 game terms, fungi like myconids, are effected my plant spells and can be turned by plant domain clerics.

 

So, here's some stuff from the Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss

None of that, however, explicitly says that she should be considered a plant for the purposes of spells/effects, so strictly by the rules, I think she'd take d6s from horrid wilting. The flavor text does say her body is made from "abyssal fungus," though, so I could see it being ruled the other way (and as General Ghoul notes, fungus is a plant as far as D&D is concerned).

I expect the Co8 folk will come down as her not being a plant, though, since that's presumably what Troika decided.

 

A friend told me that. He killed her as soon as he first saw her. He didn't even know that she was a potion vendor.

Hey, I was the one who previously stated that I would much prefer the XP reward multiplier be reduced to a lower value than it is currently! In hindsight, yes, I should have done Verbobonc before I cleared out the Elemental Nodes. But I didn't know what order I should be doing things at the time, and I knew that the slave traders were all level 18 or 20, so I thought that they would be the toughest combat in the game, so I left Verbobonc until last.

The player gets WAY too much XP for killing Drow and the slave traders! My party received more than 900,000 XP for killing the slave traders!

Thanks for all of the information on fungi and Zuggtmoy. To be honest, I don't really care whether the Horrid Wilting spell works effectively on Zuggtmoy or not because she is already WAY too easy to kill for a goddess! She really needs to be beefed up big time (e.g. by quadrupling her Hit Points, etc.)!

I have NEVER experienced jerkstop in Nulb. I've only ever experienced jerkstop when exiting the Inn of the Welcome Wench.

My lawful good party of 6 PCs finished the game with approximately 900,000 GP and they were all level 16 (they were all level 17 after they also killed Terjon and Wilfrick and his defensive square of bodyguards).

You stated that the 'Removing Wilfrick' quest has been altered in 5.9.3 NC. I hope that you are not still using the same defensive square with Verbobonc Guards all around the outside of the defensive square because it is totally ineffective and they are all sitting ducks to area effect spells!

When I talked to Lerrick on the top floor of Zeebel's Maroon Moon, the dialogue led to combat where Lerrick yelled out to the Scarlet Brotherhood for help. The problem is that I had already killed Darlia and the Scarlet Brotherhood on the 2 upper floors of Zeebel's Maroon Moon, so there was no Scarlet Brotherhood to come to Lerrick's assistance. This situation needs tweaking so that Lerrick isn't all by himself on the top floor of Zeebel's Maroon Moon, or so that Lerrick doesn't yell out for help when it is obvious that he is alone.

 

So, here's a defect report relay from the codex:

Apparently, sleep wastes hit dice trying to put undead to sleep. Reportedly, a fellow doing a lets play cast sleep on a crowd containing some undead and some normal enemies, and the undead got reported as immune, while the normals didn't even have to save, presumably meaning that the 4 available hit dice were used up on the undead. However, the SRD says:

Presumably for this reason. I haven't tried to confirm this myself, but I might.

I tried to search for this being reported previously, but didn't find anything promising. I also don't know if it's feasible to fix, but if it can be, it'd be nice.

Well, her challenge rating in the fiendish codex is 21. Similar to the balor, there'd be no chance of a 10th level party beating her if she had her full abilities, I think. Unlike the balor, there is some explanation about why Zuggtmoy is so weak, I think. Something about her being drained of strength trapped in the temple, and especially I think she put a lot of power into making the orb of golden death.

Also, she's not actually a goddess. In fact, the book mentions that she and Lolth used to be competitors of some sort, but then Lolth got promoted to goddess, so now she's out of Zuggtmoy's league.

I could stand with Zuggtmoy being stronger, though. I don't recall the fight being very hard. My guys were probably level 14, though, not 10.

 

Hmm, all right. I'm still downloading, so I haven't tested myself yet.

If it is indeed not working correctly (targeting undead), there's probably nothing that can be done about it, then.

Edit: Yep, I can't reproduce it myself. I went to Emridy meadows and cast sleep on myself (level 2) and 4 skeletons, and every time it made me make a saving throw, while saying the skeletons were immune. So you can ignore this, I guess.

Edit 2: Just to cover all bases, is it possible that some of the skeletons in the Welkwood bog aren't identified as undead for the purposes of the sleep spell's non-targeting? Evidently that's where the other fellow saw the incorrect behavior.

Otherwise, perhaps it's just a random anomaly.