Circle of Eight Modpack 5.5.0 General Commentary and Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by GuardianAngel82, Nov 28, 2008.

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  1. troop18546

    troop18546 Arcanum God

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    A few things that annoy me with the mod:

    Most of the original avatars are nowhere to be found and can't be chosen (like a fav of mine - blue elf with white hair) and there are empty, black, unaccesible thumbnails that I can't choose either.
    The "flee combat" doesn't work at all, anywhere.
    Saves are crippled - I don't know how to fix them.
    No tutorial in the menu.

    I forgot the other stuff.
     
  2. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    This is factually incorrect. 36 of the 37 original portraits are available in the mod. The one that isn't, the 'blue elf,' represents a character class that is not available in the game - namely the drow.

    Do you mean amongst the portraits as well? If so, you must have installed the mod incorrectly.

    Actually is does work in some circumstances.

    What saves? If you mean saves from an older version of the modpack or vanilla ToEE, they won't work. This information is documented in the release notes and is also easily accessible in a sticky thread in the General Modification forum here: Circle of Eight Modpack 5.5.0 BETA

    That is correct. This information is documented in the release notes and is also easily accessible in a sticky thread in this very forum here: The Circle of Eight 5.5.0 Modpack Mini-FAQ
     
  3. troop18546

    troop18546 Arcanum God

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    I followed the instructions exactly. The blue elf with white hair just was in the original game - why take it away?
    Saves that were somehow backed up from my game (not 1.0) by the mod to be "usable" later. I'd think they should work... o_O
    Enlighten me on the flee combat thing (I'll read those release notes in my spare time in a little while), because it doesn't work at all for me and like it or not - this is bug feedback for you. You don't have to convince me I'm wrong about it. P.S. I'd like to know why I can't run away from something in the game (unmodded even) that is half the map away (not on screen anymore) and poses no threat, has no way to get to me and doesn't have a chance of attacking me.

    And on that note - I do love the effort that this community is putting through, don't get me wrong. The game should've been fixed by the developers, not by us (you) and taking time to do this by yourselves deserves credit.
    Back to the whole mod thing: I just don't understand why the mod is so complicated to actually work and be slow as hell (well, the first time in) in doing so. A usual mod is what I'd consider an addon that is quickly applicable and most of all - easily editable. I find no such thing here... But then again - I'm new here.
     
  4. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Simply put, if you're playing with black boxes and white arrows for portraits, you didn't install the mod correctly. Others would have complained about such an obvious error by now. Did you wait out the module extraction process as detailed in the installation instructions? It can take a long time.

    Because
    There are NPC drow in the game that can (and do) make much better use of that portrait. BTW, have you since located the other 36 portraits, most of which you said were "nowhere to be found?"

    Again, do you mean old saves? It is clearly stated (see above) that old saves will not work with the new mod. If you're referring to the saves backup feature in TFE-X, this is just as the name suggests: it backs up saves from specific modules for use in those same modules later. It does not convert saves for use across modules, nor does any documentation anywhere suggest such a thing.

    I can't very well enlighten you about it without convincing you you're wrong about it. The flee combat option does work in some circumstances. You generally need to be fairly close to a map change portal (door, stairs, ladder, etc.) It does not work properly all the time. You said it "doesn't work at all, anywhere," but what I suspect you meant (judging from the statements in your other thread) is that you can't get it to work near the juggernaut in the water temple. (?)

    You'd have to ask Troika that. As far as Co8 modding it goes, I can't recall it ever having been much of an issue for anyone else.

    ToEE is not easily editable, because unlike NWN, there is no official toolset. We've had to build our own tools. As to the difficulty of getting the mod to work, I disagree. The front end makes it very simplistic, imo, and we generally don't get many problem reports from users. Those that do have problems usually find that they didn't follow instructions properly. (There are something like 6 steps to follow.)
     
  5. troop18546

    troop18546 Arcanum God

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    I waited for everything, did all the 6 steps. And by the way - I ran away to the edge of the map from that juggernaut to a bunch of exits - doesn't work. I do understand that it would be pointless to let people flee from every combat and it'd be a bad choice, but when the enemy can't even touch you, let alone makes no effort to follow you - it'd be nice to get a timer (like 10 turns at max) to wait it out. I'd be ok with not being able to flee if the enemy was on my back and following me, but not this. Don't you get it?
     
  6. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I do get that you'd like a combat timer, but I don't get much of the rest of the thrust behind your complaints, honestly.

    Are you familiar with the ToEE game engine? If so, maybe you could instruct us on how best to fix the flee combat mechanic or build a combat timer. If not, then I think it would be more appropriate if you didn't tell us that it's easy to fix or imply the same.

    As to the integrity of your installation, do you really believe that our mod is broken or the installation procedure is defective and that no one else noticed until now and somehow got their games to work accidentally? Or isn't it more likely that your isolated case of problems is due to user error or some other unforseen complication on your end? I would strongly suggest that you uninstall the game completely, even to the point of deleting any leftover ToEE game folders, and then reinstall carefully according to the letter of the installation instructions. Then, familiarize yourself with the game and mod documentation. Then, if you still have problems, detail all of your sytem specs and the precise steps you took during the uninstall and reinstall procedures and we'll see if we can help you further.

    You've already stated several things that would be considered red flags to the integrity of any game installation - you're using patches that are factually known to not work with the Co8 mod, you're attempting to use old saves from old game versions that are not compatible with the current Co8 mod, etc. And your game's condition describes many typical manifestations of a botched installation. These things primarily cast doubt on your claims.
     
  7. troop18546

    troop18546 Arcanum God

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    Well you can always consider my situation a first then, not tell me it cannot be an run away in fear. Anyway, I think that a timer script could be a nice addon, but as to whether or not it will be - it's up to you, I just think it'd been best if it was in 1.0. I told you I tried with every patch including the mod. Whatever, no point in arguing with you.
    A word of advice to you, tho - snappy retorts to a pissed off guy don't really help either.

    I now have encountered a nice little twist. I can flee combat on one save and not in the most important save I have. Oh well, I think I'll just try and play it through until I'm either the victor or... victor anyway, since the game is gonna die as I delete it forever.
    The game IS buggy, so what do you expect - I WILL be complaining.

    Anyway, tomorrow may be the day I finally beat that pile of crap. I'll get every tank in the game to help.
     
  8. Basil the Timid

    Basil the Timid Dont Mention the War

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    Congratulations if you beat the pile of crap. You must really feel great after banging your head on a brick wall and actually head-butting it down. Congratulations!

    I certainly don't wish to instruct you on how to spend your free time. I can only say that Gaear, Ted, and the other modders transformed a piece of crap into a gem. Try it, you might like it. Perhaps then you will realize how out of line many of your comments have been.

    Otherwise, go find another game, watch TV, or go read a book.
     
  9. tanure

    tanure Member

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    Re: Circle of Eight Modpack 5.5.x + CMF Bug Report Thread

    Atari Patch 2/5.5.0/WinXP SP3

    My game has been crashing every time I try to return do Hickory Branch (I've been there before, killed some enemies and looted pretty much everything there was to loot).

    I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but it's definitely something to take a loot at.

    Thank you, and congratulations for this great mod!
     
  10. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Re: Circle of Eight Modpack 5.5.x + CMF Bug Report Thread

    Hi Tanure
    There is a known "bug" at Hickory Branch. In the clearing just west of where you enter the map, north of the building that has the Ogre hiding in the doorway, there is a Goblin or Kobald (I can't remember which) that has some slingstones in his inventory. If you loot these, you will get the Crash (aka CTD) bug. Moral of the story: DON'T LOOT SLING STONES: EVER !!
    The Royal Canadian
     
  11. troop18546

    troop18546 Arcanum God

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    I beat that part.

    And what I liked in the mod was this:

    1) No annoying an pointless (from one perspective) fog in the cities. I don't mind it being in dungeons, it'd be silly not to have it there.
    2) The town is no longer just 2 wandering people total, it's lively, has more people (I don't remember much of what is to be in the original beginning at Hommlet, I don't think I've ever seen that boy in the beginning) and they move (sometimes at random, weird patterns) about and etc.
    3) The beginning shop map. I don't remember it ever working in the original. It might've, but I don't remember.
    4) The map has a few places marked already (I still don't remember what Verbobonc is tho o_O).
    And etc.

    I am grateful for such nice communities that actually keep the game alive to this day. If it were like D2 - it'd've been long forgotten.
    Arcanum and ToEE are two of the best games (buggy still) ever imho.
    I wish there was a nice sequel to ToEE - an addon, actually, that fixes the previous bugs and adds new stuff. If it would be impossible to fix - they could just make an addon that runs the old game through some maybe separate, new engine that doesn't touch the crippled side of things and just uses it's own remade engine (or smth like that, maybe you get my idea - maybe not).

    I will try the mod as soon as I beat the game.
     
  12. tanure

    tanure Member

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    Re: Circle of Eight Modpack 5.5.x + CMF Bug Report Thread

    Oh... thanks, but I've already looted everything and saved... heh... guess I'll have to live with that!
     
  13. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    Hey Troop

    New stuff.
    Iirc, the little kid (kent?) wasn't activated.
    So, voice, actions and all is brand new.

    New stuff.
    That's why you don't remember ;)

    New stuff!
    Verbobonc is a whole, new map, complete with quests, charcters (old and new) and shops.


    Well, the fact that you've kept on despite your problems (glares at the other Co8ters...c'mon guys) means that you want to try it. That's the whole point of us. That people want to play what we do. :)

    Well, as noted above, you've already seen some new stuff.
    With all the Co8 modsenabled, you'll be playing almost a new game.

    That's the main problem.
    the engine is quite shitty. It is good for some things, but really touchy. If you use a new engine, it wouldn't be ToEE ;)
    Also, as Gaear said, we don't have official tools. Everything is "home made", with pure effort and will. You won't find anything like this in other site. :D

    By all means!


    Btw, in regards of your Flee problem:

    -You have to be close to a door or map change point, as stated.
    It works randomly, but usually did for me.
    Also, if you try to flee with a heavy or slow character, you won't be able to do it. I couldn't flee with warriors or clerics, but always made it with monks, rogues, or high dexterity characters.
    Powerful enemies might not let you flee. Think on mini-bosses: the Juggernat is probably one.

    To beat the juggernat, use tons of projectiles. he's weak to ice, iirc, so if you have a crafter wizard, do a bunch of scrolls of Ice bolt (or whatever is called, the 0 lvl spell). Cast an entangle on general zone the Juggernaut is (try to catch the two clerics too) and shoot the hell out of it. Simple and effective.
     
  14. troop18546

    troop18546 Arcanum God

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    Hehe, well I beat him (see other thread by me), so don't worry and the flee works now as it should I guess (corrupt in the last few saves).

    I see a problem - unmodded, when my chars get charmed they still are hostile even though the enemy (lamia) is killed off by them later. It should be like this - spell expired and they're done. Plus Otis tells Elmo "Elmo, help me kill her" and they do and then they wear dark robes (o_O)? And to top it all off, attack me and never rejoin the party. How do I get around this? Do I need a bard or smth to erase the spell? In other cyllables - W T F?
     
  15. Re: Circle of Eight Modpack 5.5.x + CMF Bug Report Thread

    Okay, the first time I thought was a freak incident, but it happened again, so here goes: I rested in the intro map of the moathouse (outside) and got attacked by a group of Will-o-Wisps. When attacking them with a Fighter who normally gets five attacks (combination of main and off-hand), there is no attack animation, the float text ("Miss", for example) does appear as normal (for one attack), the creature takes damage or not as normal (for one attack), the attack and damage roll notifications for the first hit appear as normal, but none of the other attacks are reported in any way, the fighter's turn ends instantly, and the next character starts their turn with only a 5'-step remaining, as though they had just performed the full-round action my fighter attempted. This effect also occurred for two of my three wizards, but not the last wizard or my cleric. In addition, having a PC move+attack worked fine, and making single-click full attacks after that move seemed to work for both the fighter and the wizards. As I noted, this has happened once before, also when I rested on the same map and was ambushed by Will-o-Wisps.

    In addition, both times my characters all had four instances of Courage (or whatever the name is of the effect granted by a bard's Inspire Courage; can't remember) above their portraits when they awoke into battle, though they don't seem to have gotten the effects, and these disappeared within a few seconds of ending the battle.

    Disclaimer: I was using consoled (XP for testing) characters in the second instance, but not the first one.
     
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