Challenge for Temple of elemental EVil

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Waterd103, Jan 5, 2012.

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  1. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Member

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    I have the problem with RPGS that I can't enjoy them if I don't have some kind of challenge. I don't come here to argue about the validity of that but to seek help in creating a challenge that will make me enjoy a 2nd run of TOEE with CO8 PACK. I played Toee a few years ago but I couldn't put myself any challenge and finished the game with no problems.

    The problem with TOEE as with many many others RPG is that you can use the "bombard spells/rest"technique and go through the game no problem easily grinding it and having no problem except for one or two battles (Also making spellcasters in general overpowered).

    So What I need is to create for my self a series of HARD rules that I have to abide and thus me trying to beat the game without deviating from those hard rules.

    Here is an example of rules that I used this week in Knights of the chalice to make myself a challenge.

    -Ironman mode
    -1 use per campfire (Write down in a notepad or somewhere every time you use a campfire as to not reuse it later)
    -No crafting/Forge/Scribing scrolls (Which means no share spells)
    -Can Only use NPC clerics to remove permanent effects.
    -Zero Resets in Character creation.

    So I would need someting like that for TOEE. I tried "I have x number of ingame hours to beat the game" But the result is that Clerics become even more OP since they allow me to get through the game without ever resting. Maybe No crafting rule as in KOTC would be nice since crafting in general is insanely powerfull.

    I think the most important rule is to have one as Bombarding/resting to not be the best strategy. Can you help me to design such a challenge with hard rules?

    The kind of rule I don't like is the one that limit my variety. rules like "Can only plan X Class or only 1 or 2 PC chars" are things that I don't like at all. I can accept to not play a specific class if that class is too much (Something clerics tend to be in D&D)
     
  2. deuxhero

    deuxhero Member

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    Perhaps we could arrange a "draft" game like the Fire Emblem fanbase does?

    3 PCs (but only one actually put in the party) 5 NPCs and drafting NPCs? PC could talk to people, do anything in the opening and flee in combat.
     
  3. Kragenskjold

    Kragenskjold Member

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    Try 3 halflings, a fighter with 3 STR, a thief with 3 DEX and a cleric with 3 WIS. Name them Moe, Larry & Curly or Manny, Moe & Jack. :p
     
  4. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Member

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    This draft things is exactly what I said is the kind of hard rule that I don't like. Preferably rules that make "Rest and bombard" Strats not optimal or not possible.
     
  5. r0gershrubber

    r0gershrubber Member

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    I don't abuse resting in TOEE, mostly for RP reasons. I can't stand the thought of clearing half of Hickory Branch and then resting in the field when there is an encounter just out of sight.

    Here are some suggestions:
    -Use the Point Buy instead of rolling, as a 25 point character really limits how powerful it can be.
    -Use max HP for monsters.
    -Max out your party size, either with NPCs. This will help a bit early in the game, but you'll level so slowly that you'll soon be really outclassed by enemies. Swap them around throughout the game to prevent your overall party level from getting out of hand.
    -Try using spells you haven't used before. The ones that aren't broken.
     
  6. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    If you take the first roll you get when creating you pc's, don't allow any crafting and don't hire any npc's you would have a rather challenging adventure.

    I've started a few like this, but my weak will always wins and I end up getting some npc help. ;)
     
  7. Ank

    Ank Established Member

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    1)use point buy system to create chars
    2)no wizards,sorcerors or druids in party
    3)no direct damage spells/crowd control spells and if yr good enough no offensive spellcasting at all
    4)no pole wpns for the melee chars
    5)no nc content before finishing the entire temple plot line)
    6)bonus rule(if u still some how want extra challenge :evilgrin:) no crafting till u hit the elemental nodes
    This is pretty much how i play it and trust me u will feel the burn (i use all of the above excepting 6, as i need to craft in order to survive the temple levels)
    Hopefully this gives ya smth to chew on :yes:
     
  8. Badger-ude

    Badger-ude The nonPnP gamer PoV

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    Here are a few which come to mind... Feel free to pick and choose if any sound appealing

    - No buying equiptment - looting only (This is how i play anyway. I hoard money....)
    - No raising characters from the dead.
    - If the party leader dies, game over buddy.
    - 1 PC + 7 NPC slots. No raising dead NPCs.
    - No reloading save games
    - Maximum roleplaying - Would your proud Cleric of St Cuthburt REALLY wear that suit of troll bone armour? If your wife Meleny dies at the hand of an orc, would you let the orcs in the Temple Dungeon free?
     
  9. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    How about: casting spells costs (permanent) HP?
     
  10. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Member

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    I will use Ank rules, I guess Summoning creatures counts as offensive spellcasting?
    And I guess I will use a never Crafting rule
    Sadly this set of rules still makes Rest abuse optimal, but is the best Ive got.
     
  11. Oleg Ben Loleg

    Oleg Ben Loleg Established Member Supporter

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    And don't forget that there is a kind of setting a difficulty level in the ToEE Front End X options: Max Hp for NPC's from Lvls and /or Hd. This make the game definetly more challenging. Although I have played the game for dozens of time I never realized this option. I think because I thought NPC referered only to the characters that could join the party as allies.
    I think this option is definetly underpromoted.
     
  12. r0gershrubber

    r0gershrubber Member

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    What's so hard about not abusing the rest feature?

    How about you can't rest at all on unfriendly maps, and you can only leave the Temple once per floor. You may even need to buy healing potions to make that possible.
     
  13. Waterd103

    Waterd103 Member

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    Because what's abusing or what not is entirely subjective, and then beating whatever challenge is a matter of how much i want to let myself beat it , instead of actually setting a challenge for myself.

    That is like setting myself to win a boxing match without throwing "too many punches", but too many is completely loose concept that I if trying to redefine according to my needs during my match will just end with me using as much punches as I need, no more or less, making the idea of a challenge obsolete. (As summing that i know that I would always win using as much punches as i need)

    For that reason I need to set myself HARD RULES that there is no doubt in my mind what i can and can't do during the course of the game.

    Not abusing the rest system definitely doesn't fall in that category.
     
  14. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    An excellent challenge is simply beating all the new content ... and I mean ALL of it, a certain "Lords and Ladies" comes to mind.

    Hit that one as Lawful Good and tell us how easy it was, btw ... I get smoked every time myself. ;)
     
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