About Balance

Since I don't want to bore anyone by giving an epic narration of the qualities of all the fantastic new content I'd like to point out the one major drawback of NC patch and that is missing Balance: If you go past lvl 5 or so there is except for very few NC battles no real challenge anymore. The fighter grows so strong that most enemies can only hit them with a critical hit. The wizard wipes out most groups with about 2 or 3 spells.
I would like to know how other player experience that and if they have strategies to deal with it. And if it is at all such a problem in the current 7.0 patch?
My strategy for the latest mod is that I have a core of 3 characters:Fighter,Thief;wizard. I take Elmo and Ronald (the cleric guy) in addition for the beginning. I throw out Elmo when my fighter is lvl 3 (and by that eliminating the xp Elmo gathered so far from the group). When my fighter is about lvl 5 I start to multiclass him as a cleric. After he gained couple of lvls I will throw out Ronald (removing the xp he had gathered so far). I multiclass my other chars as well, not so much as to make them perfect but rather to prevent them from growing too strong. So that their highest lvl in their major class might be about 12 in the end.
I know I could lvl cap the whole thing but that would take the fun out of it because gaining xp is a very important part of the "loot" for me.

 

Try it the way i do evilgrin : fixed starting stats(18,16,14,12,10,8) for any party member , no wizard,sorc or druid only a single clerik (no offfensive casting at all (just heals&buffs and if things get realy hairy maybe a hold/command spell) and a bard as the sole offensive spellcaster; as for the melee chars the usage of polearms is banned.
Pretty sure this way u get a better challenge , then again if yr really bored/good u can add the rule 'no crafting' (Any ways this is my current level of play difficulty (haven't tried a party without any spellcasters (clerik's heals and buffs are still needed as for the bard, well smb needs to be a party face and a mediokre spellcaster/archer) and i so far still need crafting to survive)
Curious how far others have gone to 'raise the bar' ??!!

 

Sounds like an interesting aproach. Never thougt about leavin out the spellcaster maybe because for me it's the most interesting aspect of fantasy roleplay fights. But regarding balance it woul probably help a lot to play without offensive casters.

 

Another option is to multi-class in such a way as to pick up XP penalties.

My main suggestion is to use NPCs and shuffle through them throughout the game.

Does TOEE have a difficulty setting somewhere? If not, it would be a nice feature. I'm thinking of higher difficulties giving enemies extra HP, bonuses to attacks and saves, etc.

 

I think what many of these games have missed is a dynamic CR adjustment for major encounters. That is, the system changes npc stats to mirror the current pc party stat. CRs for encounters in this kind of environment are based at a +/- in relation to the PC party's total character levels rather than just "This monster = lvl 10" type creatures.

In a dynamic game setting, youll know there are gnolls in that room but how many, what levels, what classes, and their equipment and abilities will change depending on your party size and levels when you encounter them. This way, when you explore certain areas of the game they dont get underpowered because the encounters grow with your party. It provides an appropriate challenge no matter when you explore each area. Some areas are kept off limits to lower level parties by setting a minimum CR level for key encounters. So going to the Temple at level 3 is suicide because all mobs are min lvl 6-8 (example), but going there at lvl 12 is still exciting because the mobs are all now lvl 10-12.

This, of course, makes the programming much more difficult and probably couldnt be supported with the toee engine. But it is what it is.

 

TFE-X has options to give the baddies full HP from hit dice and/or char levels, if you check that but not player max HP/lvl it can get pretty dicey in the Temple bugbear fights or HB.

@Dreddnawt - Baldur's Gate II SOA/TOB was really good at that sort of thing.

 

Yes Dreddnawt I think that way it would be just perfect. Like the way it is in Baldurs gate 2. But you cannot have it all can you?

 

@OP: Use point-buy instead of roll, you'll find it a tad more challenging. But yeah, the availability of both NC and non-NC content propels your party up in levels a bit too fast. In vanilla, you'd get to the Temple at level 5-6 tops, much more of a challenge. The fact that you're only using 3-4 characters exacerbates that problem, since XP distribution favors smaller groups.

 

popamole? Are you guys talk'n some kind of fancy smart people talk again, or is popamole the one married to mamamole?

We don't take kindly to them there edgamakated talk'n peoples round these here parts. oke:

 

As I understand it, humanoid monsters in TOEE (and maybe non-humanoid, IDK) have the standard monster HD, and they can also have levels of character classes. So when you fight the bugbear swarms in the temple, you sometimes find a couple of them can trip you (because they have Improved Trip from their fighter levels) and a few can sneak attack (rogue levels.) The options dropdown list in TFE-X lets you check off max HP for NPCs (monsters) based on either HD, or char levels, or you can check both.

 

Quote:
Yes, it will still be a problem. Probably the only difference between v6 and v7 NC is that you'll have enough XP from WotGS and the extra Verbo stuff to level up to 20 routinely (or so I suspect).
Thanks Gear, at least now I know that I won't be underpowered later on in the game when I rather try to keep my group from growing too strong.

About the option max HP for NPC's.
As far as I have understood there is an option in the TFE menue: "Max HP from levels/Hd for NPC's", that comes at least close to something as a setting of difficulty level. Although I still don't understand the principle. Does max Hp from levels mean that a 4th level bugbear for example could have something between 4 to 14 HP (let's assume he only gains 1 to 4 HP each level), and if i choose max HP per level he would have always 14 HP ?
And does anyone know if I change it does it apply to an existing game or do I have to start new one?

 

A bugbear' HD in d20SRD is 3d8+3, I assume TOEE is the same. That means it will have between 6 and 27 hp, with an average of 16 from it's HD. Max hp from HD will give it the full 27. A bugbear may also have some number of class levels which give it hp just like character classes for PCs, and max hp from levels will give it max hp from those levels as well.

So a Bugbear Leader may have 3d8+3 HD, and be a 10th lvl fighter, giving it 127hp if my math is good. This could be further modified by the bugbear's CON, so even higher hp totals are possible of course. (I would assume leaders would have above average CON scores...)

I'm not sure if max HP options will affect current games, or are only applied on new game starts. :shrug:

Oh, and the d20SRD makes Bugbear look like a fantastic character race, btw: +4 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CON, -2 CHA. :dribble:

 

Thanks Erkper, so it looks like a good idea to have both options on: max Hp from HD and Levels for NPC's, if you want to make the game more challenging. Does anyone know if you change this option does it appliy to an existing game?