How about some minor changes?

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by cpdm, Aug 7, 2006.

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  1. cpdm

    cpdm One-eyed wanderer

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    I would like to change the cutlass to be:

    considered a shortsword (finessable, use wpn fcs shortsword, etc.)
    1d6 slashing damage
    20 x2 critical threat range and multiplier (seems fair because slashing is more effective in ToEE)

    I would also like to change Excalibur back to a medium longsword, so it would be:

    +5 enhancement bonus
    medium (one-handed for medium creatures)
    1d8 slashing damage
    holy

    Since a player can't craft onto Excalibur without having the +5 enhancement replaced by a +3, I wouldn't be adverse to making it Keen as well. Also, although I know very little of Greyhawk, I would like to see it become more in-line with the Holy Avenger I know and love. How about a once/day cast Dispel Magic?

    I know someone changed Excalibur from looking at the protos inside the DATs. I don't see any mention of it in the 5.0.0 release notes, and don't want to step on any toes, but I (and others) love this game because it's the most rules-compliant. That's what Troika and most of the modders were/are trying for, so I would like to de-munchkin some of these weapons... when possible.

    Feedback? Any other suggestions?

    P.S. The cutlass doesn't appear in the weapon tables of the Hypertext d20 SRD, if anyone out there has a 3.5e PHB or DMG or other source where it does appear I would gladly use those stats instead. Also, some debate on the cutlass issue can be found here and here.
     
  2. Dragon_Awakened

    Dragon_Awakened Wandering Warrior

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    The typical sword critical ranges are 19-20/x2. I'm not a modder but the only sword I've ever seen with a streight 20 critical threat in D&D was a fullblade (bigger than the greatsword) but it's damage modifier was x3 for the weight.
    I don't see why changing the cutlass to the shortsword variant should rob it of it's critical threat range (18-20/x2). It's a maximum of 12 points +strength bonus per strike as is. Adding magical effects obviously changes it. I don't see this as unbalanced.

    Just my humble opinion though I have many disagreements towards 3.5's weapon system.
     
  3. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    The sword Excalibur in ToEE is only someone's test-bed for this engine. It wasn't meant for players at all, and isn't really what the sword is supposed to be in the game. Excalibur in AD&D is a +5 Lawful Good Sword of Sharpness. The scabbard protects the wearer from being pierced or slashed by attacks. I would have thought it was Holy as well, but it doesn't seem so. It definetly isn't a Holy Avenger. IMO, if you want a Holy Avenger, then it should be something altogether new for this game rather than a "fix" for this version of Excalibur.
     
  4. cpdm

    cpdm One-eyed wanderer

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    @Dragon_Awakened: Yes 19-20 does seem pretty standard for swords, but I wouldn't be robbing it of it's threat range, because that is a rapier's threat range. When cutlasses were added to the game they were modded in as raipiers and given slashing damage, but the 18-20 was left alone, and since AFAIK there is no offical guidline for cutlasses, changing this seemed to me to be a reasonable solution to a debate going on elsewhere (here). Personally, the issue is trying to balance out the fact that it does slashing damage, whereas other swords in it's weight class do only peircing damage, a far less effective damage-type in this game. If you have any other knowledge of the cutlass or similar swords, even house rules you used once, I'd like to hear it.

    @Lord_Spike: Ahh... my assumptions jumped the gun, again. I don't actually want a Holy Avenger, I just saw +5 Holy longsword and assumed. So tell me, what effect does Sharpness have on a weapon? The piercing and slashing DR won't be hard I think, but if it's a Lawful Good weapon wouldn't that make it both Axiomatic and Holy?

    And maybe you, Spike, or someone else knows the answer to this. Is Moradin's Soul Hammer +1 actually supposed to be in the Earth Node? Or was it supposed to be a Hammersphere? That might be interesting to try implementing.
     
  5. JerryB

    JerryB Established Member

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    Ever seen an actual Cutlass? It's most definately not a finesse weapon. Quite the opposite actually, it's designed so that sailors can use it to repel boarders or capture an enemy ship.

    Sailors, while very proficient in naval gunnery and making sail, are not hand to hand experts. (hence Marines). The cutlas is a low skill weapon that deals out reasonable damage when used by someone with no background in fencing.
     
  6. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    page 13 of the arms and equipment guide says a cutlass is a scimitar - altho I think shortsword is better now its been mentioned
     
  7. cpdm

    cpdm One-eyed wanderer

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    @Jerry_B: Yes, that has been brought up elsewhere and since I havn't seen an actual cutlass, I'll take your word for it. Unfortunately it is already in the game as an IMO overpowered weapon. So how do you think it ought to be? Scimitar that weighes more? Gets smaller crit threat range?

    @Cujo: Ha, I was re-reading the "which weapon" thread and came across your earlier post about this just in time to return and see your post here. It doesn't mention any differences between them, at all?

    So, I'm becoming convinced it should be a scimitar. Would that upset a lot of people?
     
  8. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    it says for DMs to treat a cutlass as a scimitar.
     
  9. JerryB

    JerryB Established Member

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    With good cause. The model 1860 U.S. navy cutlass is 32 inches long, pretty typical for a Cutlass style weapon. Definately not a short sword, it is actually approaching the length of a longsword. Curved and single edged just like a scimitar, though heavier.
     
  10. cpdm

    cpdm One-eyed wanderer

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    Okay, cutlass as a scimitar posted on the 5.0.1 Mods & Fixes thread.

    So how about Excalibur? Can anyone tell me what a Sword of Sharpness is? Or what the special abilities of Excalibur were in the original module?
     
  11. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    Excalibur wasn't in the original module, AFAIK.

    A Sword of Sharpness is similar to a Vorpal Sword, but instead of decapitating people on a natural 20, it removes a limb. Swords of Sharpness don't exist in 3.x and Keen is probably the best substitute (not power-wise, but rather that they're both supposed to represent a weapon being exceptionally sharp.)

    I'm not sure, but I think there might be some piratey characters in the game that use cutlasses that have weapon finesse and/or WF: Rapier. I'm all for rules compliance, but this change could cause them problems if so.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2006
  12. cpdm

    cpdm One-eyed wanderer

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    Okay... I'll remove it until I've changed the pirates.

    Thanks Kalshane for pointing that out. It turns out only Bertram had Weapon Focus (Rapier), so I changed that, and only Serena has Weapon Finesse (Rapier). Just put the new fix up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2006
  13. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    Kalshane covered Sharpness, except for the fact that this can include necks as well. It definetly wasn't in the T1-4 Module. Excalibur is merely aligned, not imbued with additional powers, although I think they missed the boat on that one. It is definetly unique, and should be able to communicate, at least by empathy. All being LG means in this case is that one must be LG to wield it. It has a basic intelligence, and can withhold its abilities from those of differing alignments. It will slice completely through an extremity on any roll of 15 or higher (slightly higher for things like very large creatures - higher still for certain constructs). Even so, this may or may not mean instant death. But it sure makes it a whole lot easier.
     
  14. cpdm

    cpdm One-eyed wanderer

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    Thanks Spike for the wealth of information. Sounds like my original thought to make Excalibur less powerful backfired on me. I also may have bit off more than I can chew, it terms of my current modding knowledge. Da... er, dang that's powerful.
     
  15. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    Well, Serena's not a pirate and she uses a rapier, so she should be fine as-is. Good going on Bertram, though.

    ETA: And I see from the other thread that you already knew that. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2006
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