ToEE Text & Backgrounds

Gaer, let me get this straight. Is the following correct?
- it's not possible for Co8 to increase the font size, unless some crazy DLL voodoo is done
- it should be possible to change the font type and color
- it should be possible to change the background in the dialog window

As far as the new UI goes I do like it a lot more, except for the floating text box. I would prefer not to have it.

 

I like the old stuff .... anyway, change is scarey.

 

For the default position text box area, I definately would enjoy this. Way better looking than the usual black background. Looks really great.

And as for the floating text, I actually would enjoy having it if it was possible to make the box not be in the way from one of these ways;

-Make it so that the floating text box becomes transparent when the cursor is hovering over it.
-Allow the floating text box to be click and dragged around the screen, as to move it out of the way if it can only be opaque.

 

Hey there, here's the guy from the codex who did that picture.

First of all - I've bought ToeE back then when it was released, but never played a game set in the D&D mechanics before, also the beginning in Hommlet scared me a bit off... Now I reinstalled it with more knowledge of all the rules and what not and having a blast.

I basically posted this picture on the codex because I wanted to get rid of this "lifeless" dialog box /w black background and all just for myself, I didn't know that more people would appreciate that- since I am doing some game vaguely based on the Fallout engine and the ToeE directory almost looks the same when it comes to folder structure, I fired up my graphics programs.

This shouldn't be a problem, on request I can make the entire textbox bigger, wider etc - just how you'd need it later when you looked into the files and see if it is possible at all. I can do different versions for different resolutions aswell.

The floating text box was indeed planned to be opaque, with only the characters potrait (the one who is talking to you right now) solid - I left the floating text box "solid" because I was too lazy to shop the vanilla text out of the screenshot I used. Winstons suggestions sound really nice. I would gladly do more graphics for you guys if you want, for example the combat log has the same boring black background, I could expand the inventory a bit etc etc. Just drop me a line!

 

Hmmmm, maybe change isn't so scarey after all.

Welcome to the forum Surf Solar.

 

Yup, I definitely want the new one. Amazing job Surf Solar.

Edit: Btw SS can we see an image where you can select diplomacy, intimidate & etc. Suggestion - red for Intimidate, light blue for Gather Info, yellow for Sense of Motive, green for Bluff and I dunno what color would perfectly suit for Diplomacy.

 

If there's going to be a text box around the floating text -- which I'd rather not to have -- it should have the exact opposite effect. It should only be present if you hover the mouse at the speaking NPC avatar.

I don't think I like the colored lines idea. But if it were to go ahead, I think it should be: red for Intimidate, then Bluff should be yellow and the Sense of Motive blue or green, while Diplomacy should be white.
The reason for that being intimidate is associated with violence and blood. Bluff is lying so it's a less dangerous option. While Sense Motive is kind of street wise, so it reminds me of a regular people in the streets, a blue color worker. While diplomacy is white color type of work.

In any case I still think it's better to have those icons before the dialog option, maybe they just need to be tweaked a bit: Intimidate a represented with a fist, Bluff a face with a big nose, Sense Motive a spider man (j/k... I'm not sure about this one... maybe an ear or the nose and whiskers of cat/mouse), and Diplomacy a hand-shake.
IIRC the intimidate and sense motive icons are already these. At first I got confused on the big smile icon, I thought "is this the trolling option? ", but I now suspect it's for bluff.

 

I don't mind improvement, but I wasn't able to read the text in the example. This effect may be the result of the fact that the new thumbnails are still small after I expand them. I wouldn't mind being able to vote on whether to go back to the old pictures.

The purpose of dialog boxes is to allow the text to be read against a consistent background and to signal that there IS dialog.

The problem with colored text in the forum is that only a few colors have sufficient contrast to be legible against the gray background. Red, for example, is NOT one of them. The would be worse against a multi-colored background if there were no dialog boxes. It CAN work on drab backgrounds like Planescape: Torment or the recent Elder Scrolls stuff.

Floating dialog that fades is, of course, a complete fail.

Another failure is having to scroll to read a dialog box.

A couple of the game's profound weaknesses is that dialog sometimes appears just one time and that dialog choices can be catastrophically irreversible. Illegible text would make the game incomprehensibly unplayable.

These are just my opinions. I would vote FOR it if legibility wasn't compromised for prettiness.

 

heheh... I also thought about using the initials as well, but then it occurred me "so Surf Solar is going to beautify the interface and then we're going to uglify it with letter codes?"
If the icons could be changed and made a little bit bigger (this would require some spacing between lines and there's also the issue if the font size can be changed) maybe Surf Solar can use his artistic powers to make some cool intuitive icons?

While writing this post I noticed the smilies to the right... At 24x24 it's probably possible to be able to convey the needed message. (just to be clear I'm not asking for animations)
If the option is to go with better icons, these would be my suggestions (on my previous post I also forgot about Gather Info):
Intimidate - fist, or strong arm, or hands clenching on a shirt
Bluff - "smiling" face with big nose like pinochio
Gather Info - magnifying glass
Sense of Motive - animal nose with whiskers (with "movement rings" around it), or ear
Diplomacy - handshake


In any case, may it be icons or initials, the thing is that the player must know what they mean. On my case I don't remember seeing those icons in the manual, or when I read then I quickly forgot about them.



EDIT:

just remembered about this regarding the use of colors. On this interview with Tim Cain he says that he suffers from loss of color vision (something which I didn't even knew it existed). So maybe relying solely on colors is a bad idea.

GuardianAngel82;109933 can you see it better here? : http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=63351&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=200#1839104

Where does this happen? On the dialog box on the left you can click it and have a log of all the conversations.
Oh I think I remembered of one... when you do a search, the text that tells the player the result of that find quickly fades.



EDIT: link to the modding thread started by Gaer
http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9250

 

I hope I can address/sum up all of the areas of concern talked about in the thread here in my post;

Main Dialogue Box;
I support the new box background 150% for being implemented to this area of the UI. The soulless black background can do nothing but improve in this aspect.

Charisma Skill Indicators in Text;
In a situation of icon vs letter, I will pick icon usually. I'm very fond of those little pictures, and I've come to recognize them by color coding usually (green - gather info, red - intimidate). It was a bit confusing at first, sure, but I just examined the pictures and saw things like a little flexed arm which was for intimidate, and got it. If it's possible to slightly increase the size and visibility of the icons, I would really like that, but otherwise, I'd prefer icons to letters. This situation sort of reminds me of the scathar/fragarach graphical models. The old ones were cooler, we changed them to be normal and make more sense, but the old ones came back anyway.

Text size & Color;
I'd like it if the text size could be increased and/or the font type be changed to one easier to read. I've always had a bit of an annoyance looking at walls of text in the ToEE boxes. Definitely an area to try to fix if possible. Also, I think changing the text color to a white/tan would be better to fit with the old background/new background respectively. That sickly yellow color of the text is just unappealing. It needs to be something that boldly catches your attention, and is pleasant to look at and not difficult to decipher.

Floating Text;
If it were possible, having a background that is transparent by default and opaque if the cursor is hovering over it would be the best. There are times I've had to move the screen to a different area to see the text, and if I could just hover the cursor over it to get a contrasting background to read it, it would be great. Otherwise, leave it. But definitely try to fix the text size/color, because floating text can be annoying sometimes.