Weapon Finesse

This has probably been brought up before, but with weapon finesse it says "You use your Dex modifier when wielding this weapon" but I dont choose a weapon. Does it work for all weapons? I am playing 5.6.1

 

IIRC, finesse works for all weapons that are one category smaller than the user, plus a few special weapons. For medium-sized characters (elves, dwarves, humans, half-elves and half-orcs) that means all small weapons, plus the special weapons which are limited to (as far as I know) rapier and spiked chain. Small characters (gnomes and halflings) can only finesse tiny weapons like daggers or specially made small versions of regular weapons.

 

Well shit, here I am thinking I can finesse and dual weild long swords.

 

Sort of right - finesse works with "light weapons" such as daggers, shortswords, handaxes and also rapiers and spiked chain.

I don't think that all "tiny" weapons count for finessing, such as a tiny quarterstaff.

 

What does everyone dual wield with then?

 

Two short swords is not a bad option if you really want Weapon Finesse, but I usually go for a longsword+shortsword or similar without finesse. If finesse, then rapier+small weapon. And you know that you'll get -2 to attack to BOTH hands if you don't you use a small weapon in offhand?!

 

Actually 2 weapon fighting works as such:

2 weapons + two-weapon fighting + small weapon in off hand = -2 both hands

There is ALWAYS a penalty to hit for two weapon fighting.

Also, last I checked (Co8 5.6.0) handaxes are not finessable even though they are light. I was checking with Fruella's cleaver which is classified as a handaxe. The bug could be with that specific weapon rather than the feat.

Also, weapon finesse also works with rapier and spiked chain, which are not light weapons.

Regarding 2-weapon fighting, a lot of people will tell you that 2 weapon fighting is inferior to a two-handed weapon. This is only true of base damage weapon damage and the likelihood to hit. Once you start adding additional damage capabilities to your weapons (fiery burst, sneak attack, etc.) That extra attack equals a lot more damage, but you only get it if you can make a full action attack.

If you want to two-weapon attack, your best bet (from a purely statistical point of view) is to get weapon focus in a small weapon and put it in both your hands.

Example: Fighter with with weapon focus in short sword + 2 weapon fighting = -1(effectively) to hit, both hands instead of -2.

 

As I said, rapier and spiked chain are special weapons that work with finesse, as per RAW.

The great cleaver is a medium weapon, so even though it uses handaxe proficiency, it can't be finessed. Regular handaxes can, IIRC.

Light weapons are those that are one size category smaller than the wielder, so shortswords and handaxes are light to a medium character, but not to a small character. So a halfling cannot finesse a normal shortsword, though he could finesse a tiny weapon.

 

I never use finesse, so for me the usual dual-wield is longsword/shortsword, changing to dual longswords (or dual great cleavers) when the BAB gets high enough to ignore the extra -2 per hand for no light offhand weapon.

If I was going to dual finesse, I'd probably take rapier/shortsword or dual shortsword if I was going to take a WF.

 

Yeah, I meant that there is EXTRA -2 attack penalty to both hands if you don't use small weapon in offhand.

But I have given up on calculating my character for a long time ago. I ended up creating new and new characters since it never was "perfect" character build. Now I just create characters that I LIKE to play rather than perfect built "Xp Machines". Ex. I know created very "poor" characters to ToEE and try to manage with them.

 

Yes, I can confirm that is true.

Although cleavers are not finessable, I find them to be excellent dual wield weapons. I generally have a high DEX/high STR fighter/barbarian who uses them as his main weapons.

 

I agree. Being able to use one feat for both Great Cleaver and Hand Axe is great. It saves you feats.

 

Is the Wakizashi light and able to use with finesse? The assassin uses one with the rapier. I was thinking about using two of them so I can weapon focus them.

 

Yes, wakazashis will finesse. But the weapon focus is short sword, I believe.