To two weapon fight or not to two weapon fight.

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by BrotherSmythe, Oct 19, 2016.

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  1. BrotherSmythe

    BrotherSmythe Established Member

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    If I am sporting two fighers in my party I will invariably make one a two weapon fighter. In my first attempts I would rush to it as soon as possible. Now my approach is more measured. I'll get my primary weapon focus and weapon specialization first along with some other feats such as cleave or combat reflexes . Then I will start to build my offhand weapon.
    My offhand weapon will be "light" so as to reduce the to hit penalties to only -2 for each hand. I would have to acquire the namesake feat two weapon fighting of course. Weapon focus and specialization.
    More advanced feats would be the next phase. Improved critical for both weapons. Improved two weapon fighting and defense possibly.
    My favorite build is using a bastard sword for my primary hand and a short sword for my offhand. The bastard sword does good damage and the short sword is "light". I have used a different build with Fruella, whom I have turned into a two weapon monster. Masterwork cleaver in her primary hand and hand axe in her offhand. The two weapons actually use the same proficiency! This frees up many feat options.
    What combination or system do you prefer. Or do you favor the old sword and board? Perhaps one great weapon doing massive damage.
     
  2. Gehennis

    Gehennis Established Member

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    Can't say that I've tried two weapon fighting with anyone except Rangers- I always tend to specialize my pure Fighters in long and great sword (for when I get the Frost Brand- does really well against Zuggtmov(?)...)
     
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  3. BrotherSmythe

    BrotherSmythe Established Member

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    I highly recommend using fighters for two weapon users. They have more feats and excellent BAB. I give my rangers the archery fighting style.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
  4. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    For my melee combatant (singular), I use a reach weapon and Combat Reflexes. Everyone else uses a bow.
     
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  5. BrotherSmythe

    BrotherSmythe Established Member

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    From what I've read reach weapons seem to be popular and effective. I haven't actually tried one yet. It is big fun to slide up next to an ugly and rip into him with both of your weapons. By level eight-ish you are completely shredding your enemies. I almost feel sorry for them...
     
  6. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Reach weapons are a tad over powered, they have a 10' reach instead of the usual 5'reach for melee weapons. In ToEE, the reach is implemented as a reach between 0' and 10' instead of the way the rules state it should work, which is between 5' and 10'.

    As such you could have your Long Spear wielding Cleric, Druid, and Fighter form a line in front of your squishier Wizard and Rogue archers. When enemies close in for melee combat, their movement is interrupted as your guys get an AoO against them, because they passed through your reach area to get to you.

    So enemies approach you, get attacked by you, then continue their move and attack. On your turn you can step 5' backwards, get your full attack, and wait for the enemy to move and attack - as they tend not to use 5' steps, enemies tend to lose full attacks for moving and attacking... This is an AI exploit, but technically a legitimate tactic in ToEE.

    Perhaps @Sitra Achara could fix these issues in Temple+?

    The tactics for using reach weapons in your group 'should' be to have 1+ melee character in front of the reach weapon users to protect the 0' to 5' area between the wielder and the start of the reach area, the reach weapons can be used from the 'second row' with no issues, I believe there were even special rules to set up Pike Hedges with multiple rows of reach weapons, so that you could set them to receive infantry and cavalry charges (you receive bonuses vs. charging enemies) which aren't implemented in ToEE to my knowledge.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
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  7. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    I've definitely had the AI exploit in mind for a while now. I'll get to it sooner or later ;)
    The donut threat area might be tricky to do right though, so not sure I'll do that.
     
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  8. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    Most reach weapons are also two-handed, thus granting you extra damage for your strength...
     
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  9. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    A dual wielding fighter with the appropriate feats and the "speed" enchantment on both weapons becomes a shredder!
     
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  10. BrotherSmythe

    BrotherSmythe Established Member

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    I forgot about the speed enchantment. Part of the Temple+ modification I believe. Definitely will be on those weapons. Good times. Will it stack with haste?
     
  11. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    No it will not, but it does give you an extra attack with each weapon that has that enchantment on it.
     
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  12. Kosiciel

    Kosiciel Member

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    Dual wielding becomes more tempting with higher enhancement bonuses, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat and Speed weapon ability, but two handed weapons with trip attack bonuses and possibility to use trip attack as part of full attack is also great (especially for dwarves, if they have their racial trait Stability; wondering about dwarven monk...).
     
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  13. BrotherSmythe

    BrotherSmythe Established Member

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    People like Dwarven monks. I was in a rpg group that had an halfling monk. Pretty cool. The barbarian and him did a version of the x-mens 'fastball special'.
     
  14. Endarire

    Endarire Ronald Rynnwrathi

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    Longspears are, presently, the most poweful weapon in the game due to them being Simple weapons, 2H, and reach weapons. Add Combat Reflexes and suddenly it doesn't need to be your turn for hordes of enemies to die!

    A reach weapon can get you 2:1 Power Attack returns, (Great) Cleave with reach, and, with enlarge person or/and righteous might, even more reach! This generally requires less investment than TWF.

    But if you really want to go TWF, Rogue (often multiclassed with Fighter, Ranger, or/and Barbarian) is generally best. Sneak Attack applies per attack. Dual wield shortswords (they're light weapons), flank a lot, have a high initiative (Improved Initiative!), and just be lethal.
     
  15. sigofmugmort

    sigofmugmort Established Member Supporter

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    Generally, I find Ranger/rogue multiclass good for the Large number of skills and for TWF a Dwarf can be "Interesting" as the Dwarven Waraxe is a racial proficiency and can be used one-handed by a Dwarf, one in each hand
     
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