Stunning Revelations from Orion

(posted in the modding forum because it will probably only be of interest to modders)

Initially intrigued by Morpheus' inspection of Orion's "Complete Fixes" mod at Sorcerer's Place, I was even more surprised to see a post by Orion today at Atari where he advertises his (presumably) latest update.

Now I know that this horse is as dead as a horse can get, but holy shit, this guy has unleashed some real zingers and a few downright egregiously false claims in his website docs, posts, and readmes. To wit: (all italics and bold type are mine)

From Sorcerer's Place:

Orion fixed all the game bugs and errors?

Orion did all this too?

From Orion's Atari post:

Hmmmm . . .

From Orion's "READ ME 1":

A repeat from Morph, I know, but . . . apparently Orion did the only working version of Disintegrate.

Here we see Orion divorcing himself from Co8, acknowledging the contributions of others that have content in his mod, and then claiming exclusive rights to that content.

From Orions "READ ME 2:"

Didn't Livonya do this? No mention made of Livonya in this document. If Orion overhauled this himself, my apologies.

From Orion's "READ ME 3:"

Alright, now I know for a fact that this text is straight from moebius2778's changelog for his .dll fixes. And yet there is no mention made of moebius2778 in this document.


I think our old buddy Orion79 is taking us for a ride here, people. Maybe this is another unintended consequence of his language limitations, but regardless, the implication here is that Orion himself is responsible for the lion's share of fixes up to and including elements of Co8 4.0.0. Did anyone actually authorize his use of their stuff? I'm thinking material that wasn't included in Co8 3.0.4 - Darmagon's spells, Allyx's items, etc.

Have a look at the Atari and Sorcerer's Place posts yourself, and download his fixes and read the readmes in their entirety for yourself. Then see what you think the overall impression seems to be.

As for me, it pisses me off in a major way.


Edit: Just noticed that Allyx posted about this first in the GD forum. All thunder goes to Allyx.

 

Now thats the spirit of a good game... has anybody played a PnP game that didn't contain humour at some point? I remember playing some module years ago where a party of heavily armed characters crashed a Temple of some bunch of dervishes.

Suspicious Dervish Leader: Who are you and what do you want?
Guy in full plate with big sword: O don't worry about us, we're just the cleaning staff. We come every night.

Of course there was a major battle seconds later, but talking our way out of it would have been rather unlikely (no bluff rolls back then!)

As for 0rion: imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Once again, I drink to Drifter who made genuine contributions here, then had the courage of his convictions to walk away.

 

Well, I really think that, in our turn, we should make a notification somewhere on the boards stating that Orion's mod, as released on sorcerers.net, is a cheap rip of Co8 3.0.4/4.0.0 fixes and mods mixed together with a bunch of untested stuff, and that we as a modding community don't recommend people to use it. At least people coming to our boards will know what they are getting into when they download his mod.

Also, stealing a good bunch of fixes our modders have created (with great difficulty I might add!) sure doesn't add to Orion's reputation.

Of course, we shouldn't sound impositional here - people should be free to choose to download and use any mods they would like, but I think it is a part of our mission to precaution people against using potentially crappy and ultra-hyped (golly, what a word combination there! ) stuff.

What do you guys think about it?

P.S. Too bad I can't register at Atari forums (Darn, I hate Atari! The thing won't accept my free e-mail domain!).. Otherwise I would have added a couple "good words" to the discussion there. EDIT: Uh no, strike that - I found my way in.

- Agetian

 

OK, my thoughts are in.
- Agetian

 

I second that.

- Agetian

 

I third it, and may I add that someone should let the moderators of sorcerers place know our arguments as to why it should be removed.

 

Sure, please make a compilation of all the reasons in this thread, I'll forward it on to Tal.

- Agetian

 

Well I started to write an argument why I disagree and think we should leave it there (albeit express our opinions on how he has nicked our stuff) but the more I tihnk about it, the more i dislike that the efforts of C-Blue, Liv, Moebius et al have not been properly acknowledged, and in the case of Darmagon, included while the modder has been actively derided.

I am reticent to drag Taluntain into this though, he is just giving people the options of what to download. I'm sure we all support 0rion's right to post his alternate crap, if he gives credit where it is due etc.

Anyways, people who know the big T better than I can make the call I guess, or give him the option.

 

I already did it. Tal has removed Orion's mod from sorcerers.net.

- Agetian

 

Here's a snapshot of my latest discussion with Tal that I just recently had:


[19:19] Tal: is there any chance of you guys letting orion keep his mod up provided he gives credit where it's due and apologizes? or are there any other issues besides?
[19:21] Michael Kamensky: I guess it'd be good to post this at the boards so that other members can take a look. Do you want me to do this?
[19:22] Tal: yea, please... the mod's had over 1000 downloads and I only have his word that people like it, but still...
[19:23] Michael Kamensky: I'd like to ask a question though: was it his wish to give credit properly? (I mean, does this idea come from him personally)?
[19:24] Tal: no, not really... that'd be my condition to have it back up again
[19:24] Tal: he says he gave credit for everything
[19:24] Michael Kamensky: Ah, OK
[19:24] Tal: "I never denied Co8's paternity of the base of my module and in the read-me of my file is clearly written who created every part of my module and it is clear, black on white, what I done by myself, as well why I left."
[19:25] Michael Kamensky: Weird.
[19:25] Michael Kamensky: OK, I'll make a post at the boards, and I'll let you know about what our modders think about it, OK?
[19:25] Tal: I obviously can't say if he's right or not
[19:25] Tal: thanks
[19:26] Michael Kamensky: Since I can't say it all alone either, I'll have to consult other people at the boards
[19:26] Michael Kamensky: I'll let you know as soon as people decide something
[19:26] Tal: ok


Please let me know what you think about it, guys. Your decision will be reported back to Tal immediately, for his consideration.

- Agetian