Spells with Issues

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by marc1967, Feb 19, 2018.

Remove all ads!
  1. marc1967

    marc1967 Established Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    27
    I'm trying to finish off my spell descriptions mod, and it's mostly done, but there are a few spells I've run into that either don't work right, or don't work at all. I would be adding a note to these spell descriptions that say something like "In ToEE, this spell does not.....". I won't be doing this for every spell that has minor differences, but only for those that have major issues that can cause confusion and frustration to players trying to use them.

    All the spells below have major problems, based on the testing I have done over the years.

    If you see a spell on this list that actually works right, and is contrary to my findings, please tell me before I finish things up.

    Thanks to any who look at this. :)


    Calm Emotions
    - Parts of the spell do not work.
    - Fear effects and the spells Bless and Good Hope are suppressed.
    - However, it does not suppress the spells Rage or Confusion, or barbarian rage.
    - Fixed in Temple+, according to the changelog.​

    Discern Lies
    - Does not work.
    - Does not grant any bonus to Sense Motive.
    - Fixed in Temple+, though not listed in changelog.​

    Dispel Air
    Dispel Earth
    Dispel Fire
    Dispel Water
    - Parts of the spell do not work.
    - It does give a +4 deflection bonus against any attack, though not specific to air/earth/fire/water.
    - The dispel part does not work, even though you are allowed to activate it.
    - The spell itself is dispelled if any other spell targets you.
    - This is confusing to someone trying to use the spell.​

    Gentle Repose
    - The spell must be cast while the creature is still alive.​

    Magic Circle against Chaos
    Magic Circle against Evil
    Magic Circle against Good
    Magic Circle against Law
    - Parts of the spell do not work.
    - The +2 vs. evil is only applied to the caster, not to others in the circle. (known issue)
    - The protection from Mind Effects does not work at all on anyone, including the caster.
    - The inward part does in fact work on summoned creatures of the given alignment, holding them at bay.​

    Negative Energy Protection
    - Does not work.
    - Also, it is not a 3.5 spell.​

    Neutralize Poison
    - Removes ongoing poison effect.
    - Does not provide prevention.
    - Fixed in Temple+
    Remove Fear
    - Does not work. (known issue)
    - Even the particle check line, that fixed Remove Curse in Rudy's mod, does not fix it.
    - The condition is probably not functioning internally.​

    Repel Vermin
    - Does not work.​
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  2. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes Received:
    183
    I thought @Shiningted had fixed the Magic Circle spells by changing the targeting system to center on the caster (like Invisibility 10' radius) and applying Protection from Good/Evil/Chaos/Law to those in the area as appropriate.

    Nice work on testing all the spells though. :)
     
  3. marc1967

    marc1967 Established Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    27
    That change isn't in Co8 8.1.0 or KOTB 1.1.

    It seems like a fair workaround, though. I like it. Just make it like a Mass Protection for Evil. I'll probably add it to my spell changes.
     
  4. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes Received:
    183
    Ted did some work on spells based on Rudy's mod a while back, it also added domain spells to high level clerics IIRC.
     
  5. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes Received:
    183
    This mod specifically.

    Edit: I had remembered incorrectly, we nicked the targeting for Magic Circle vs... for invis 10' radius, not the other way around. In any case, it prot evil effects could be applied to all within 10' of the caster rather than the current broken version of magic circle vs... it should surely work correctly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  6. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    2,839
    Likes Received:
    133
    Chiming in to confirm that Remove Fear is internally broken. It's basically an unfinished spell, since you currently can't even query for it, and that it removes itself as soon as it is applied (which contradicts its 10 min/lvl duration). Lastly, Cause Fear / Fear don't check for it in their Critter_Is_Afraid query handler (as they do check for Calm Emotions).
    Should be fixed next Temple+ release.
     
    florian1 and Allyx like this.
  7. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    2,839
    Likes Received:
    133
    Hmm, it seems as though Neutralize Poison is similarly bugged, but oddly I have seen no mention of it anywhere here. Can anyone confirm?

    Edit: I guess it works in the sense that it removes an ongoing poison effect, but it doesn't act as a preventative spell with 10 min/lvl duration.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  8. marc1967

    marc1967 Established Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    27
    Yes, it removes the current poison condition, but does not provide the prevention effect.
     
  9. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    2,839
    Likes Received:
    133
    Yeah, that's going to be fixed too.
    It looks like they copypasted the code from the other remove X spells, which mostly do have an instantaneous effect.
     
  10. _doug_

    _doug_ Established Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    43
    The spells: Dispel Air, Dispel Earth, Dispel Fire, Dispel Water and the dispel alignment spells should have the dispel part working correctly in the latest temple+ update.

    What is the Sense Motive bonus for Discern Lies? It is not in the D&D 3.5 rules.
     
  11. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes Received:
    183
    The spell doesn't give a specific bonus, you cast it on a group (1 target per level within 30 feet of eachother) and for the spell's duration if any of them tell a lie, you know they are lying. For there to be a useful effect in game, +20 Sense Motive should be sufficient.

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/discernLies.htm
     
    _doug_ likes this.
  12. _doug_

    _doug_ Established Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    43
    Sounds good. Is the +20 value from any specific source or is that just a good work around?

    It looks like it should respond to the query DK_QUE_Critter_Can_Discern_Lies. Does anyone know if that currently works?
     
  13. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes Received:
    183
    IIRC, Invisibility grants a +20 to hide checks.
     
  14. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    20
    Thanks for confirming my continuing to increase Hide for characters that have invisibility items!
     
  15. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,824
    Likes Received:
    183
    The 3.5 srd doesn't list any hide bonus for invisibility, but the Pathfinder version certainly adds +20 to stealth for invisible creatures
     
Our Host!