Something about Amie

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by The Royal Canadian, Jun 10, 2009.

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  1. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Folks
    I have a question about the quest to heal Amie (the one where you go looking for Swamp Lotus after a random encounter is a swampy area): was it designed so that it couldn't be completed unless you had a druid or a ranger in the front ?? I have two reasons for asking this. In my first, 3 PC campaign, I have a Cleric with a Survival skill of 12 ( !! ), and in spite of taking on every random encounter (including several that are in the appropriate "habitat") she has never found any Swamp Lotus (she is 14th level at the moment, and has been in the front rank since the beginning). This evening I started a new campaign, and got my 3 member party up to level 4. Up front is a fighter with a survival skill of 7. This group encountered a pair of Giant Crayfish in the swamp, but no Swamp Lotus. I reloaded the game at the point where I was Leveling everyone up. Instead of making the Fighter a 4th Level Fighter, I added 1 level of Ranger and left her Survival skill at 6. The next random swmap encounter produced the Swamp Lotus. If you did, please change it so that the quest can be completed by parties that don't have Rangers or Druids.
    Thanks !!
    TRC
     
    The Royal Canadian, Jun 10, 2009
    #1
  2. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Hmmm, thats some good detective work - you must be a mountie ;) Personally, I reckon that would be a great twist if it was the case, but having a quick look at the files, I don't think it is:
    Code:
    if (encounter.map == 5072 and game.global_flags[855] == 1 and game.global_flags[875] == 0):
		game.global_flags[875] = 1
		flower = game.obj_create( 12900, location_from_axis (499L, 459L))
    Which basically says (in order), "if you are on the swamp random map and are looking for the lotus and haven't found a lotus yet, then create one and flag that it has happened". Nothing about Druids or Rangers.

    Note that I suspect there are two swamp maps - 'swamp map' and 'swamp map road'. They are difficult to distinguish. The lotus obviously only appears on one: you may have been on the other.

    Also note I only have some old files in front of me at the moment (Co8 5.0.x) so maybe Gaear added the Druids-or-Rangers Twist. Good for him if he did, but perhaps Jaroo should mention it. in that case.
     
    Shiningted, Jun 10, 2009
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  3. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    No, I didn't change anything there.
     
    Gaear, Jun 10, 2009
    #3
  4. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Ted
    TRC
     
    The Royal Canadian, Jun 10, 2009
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  5. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Yeah, we can do that :)
     
    Shiningted, Jun 10, 2009
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  6. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Ted
    Thanks !
    TRC
     
    The Royal Canadian, Jun 10, 2009
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  7. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Ted
    I'm back with the same problem. Is there a minimum "Survival" skill requirement for this quest, or does it matter which side of the front the "high Survival" character is on ?? My 6th Level Cleric has a survival skill of 7, and still no swamp lotus. May I suggest reworking the quest to make it more "logical" ?? I always find it a bit weird when I decide to travel by road to someplace, and then end up in the middle of a swamp, with no road in sight. I know it's possible for a group of adventures to leave the road to attack nearby monsters, but lets be realistic, nobody who is traveling between two places is going to tromp through a roadless swamp en route to their destination. It just takes to long. What I find really funny are the encounters I sometimes have ( usually with Bandits, Lizardmen, or Giant Crayfish ) on the "Water Street" map ( the map with a road next to water ), where my party starts off IN THE WATER, and the monsters are on dry land.

    What I would like to see done to make the quest more "logical" is something along these lines.
    1.) Jaroo doesn't know where to find Swamp Lotus nearby, but suggests that you check with someone who does a lot of hunting ( Black Jay ?? Elmo ?? ) to find out where a "Suitable" swamp might be. This might even be a good time to drop in a revised version of the Arch Druid from KoTB. At any rate, after a minor adventure, the party is then given the location of the Swamp Lotus.

    2.) The Swamp Lotus area could be the home of an "interesting" creature like a young Green Dragon or a something equally challanging.

    The Royal Canadian
     
    The Royal Canadian, Jul 10, 2009
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  8. Emirkol the Chaotic

    Emirkol the Chaotic Proud Polytheist

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    I like the idea, but a Black Dragon would fit better. Their habitats are those of swamps and jungles, whereas Green Dragons prefer deep forests.
     
    Emirkol the Chaotic, Jul 10, 2009
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  9. realmzmaster

    realmzmaster Established Member

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    I never had a problem finding the swamp lotus. It always appears at the first random encounter after getting the quest. Maybe I am just lucky?
     
    realmzmaster, Jul 10, 2009
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  10. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi
    Maybe I'm just unlucky !! I have not 1, not 2, but 3 saves, all in the "right" map (at least it's the map I've always found Swamp Lotus in before: Water and Trees everywhere) but no $%^&(( Swamp Lotus. I even have Otis with me on one of the saves !
    The Royal Canadian
     
    The Royal Canadian, Jul 10, 2009
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  11. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Well its nothing to do with Survival skill, looking again at that script. I have found to get non-road encounters, go between places that don't have a road, like the Moathouse and anywhere.

    But yes, we can do something about having it come up on both swamp maps.
     
    Shiningted, Jul 10, 2009
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  12. Ranth

    Ranth Established Member

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    Looking at that code, it seems that if your party has been on a swamp map with the lotus on it, but you did not pick it up, then it would not respawn in the future.

    Basically, when the lotus spawns it marks a global flag saying 'we spawned the lotus, do not spawn again'. So if you miss it the first time it, I think it is gone.

    Maybe we can recode it to spawn everytime on a swamp map until the quest is over.
     
    Ranth, Jul 10, 2009
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  13. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Wouldn't that mean that it would keep spawning until you found it though?

    Personally I've never had a problem with the implementation of this quest. I like that it's a very chancey thing and that there are no guarantees, because that's appealing to RP sensibilities. I realize that it may not appeal so much to the must-complete-every-quest crowd though, but if we deviate too much from the original it will cease to be Livonya's mod. I don't mind doing this with stuff that is broken or poorly implemented (the imo hated electricity trap springs to mind) or stuff that can stand to be improved, but not so much with stuff that's working as intended.

    I agree that the execution of random encounters is often goofy (what with appearing waist deep in the water and all that, as mentioned by TRC), but I suspect they were basically designed by Troika to offer some variety of terrain. e.g., the impetus behind appearing in a swamp is not so much to suggest that you'd been traveling via swamp, but that players would find it cool to have a fight in one. That's what I suspect anyway. Random encounters are goofy in a lot of ways.
     
    Gaear, Jul 10, 2009
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  14. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Ranth
    Maybe I'm doing something wrong, I don't know. Allow me to explain how I "play" the encounter, and maybe you can pinpoint where I might be goofing up.

    1.) My Cleric with the 6 or 7 skill points in Survival is in the front rank with the fighter. My party deployment is as follows: Fighter and Cleric up front, Meleny (and her pet) in the middle, and the Rogue/Wizard in the rear. I have even tried to see if whether the "Survivalist" being on the left or right front made any difference.
    2.) The three encounters I have mentioned, all took place on the "Roadless Swamp" map (the one with all the trees). After the battle is over, I would have the party walk over the entire map while pressing the TAB key. Usually the battle starts with my party either in the middle of the map or in the "SouthEast" (bottom right-hand) corner of the map. In previous games, I have always found the Lotus along the "West" edge of the map, next to a tree. Like I said, irregardless of where the battle started, my party would walk the entire map while I held down the TAB key, but I never found the Lotus. Come to think of it, usually in past games I didn't NEED to press the TAB key to find it. Is it possible that pressing the TAB key is somehow "concealing" the Lotus ??:confused:

    If you can think of anything I've done wrong, please let me know.

    P.S. : Would any of the saves I mentioned have the code to indicate whether the Lotus had been "placed" ?? If so, would anyone like to take a look at them, or tell me how I can check them myself ?? Thanks !!

    The Royal Canadian
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
    The Royal Canadian, Jul 10, 2009
    #14
  15. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Re: Something about Amie - The Plot Thickens

    Hi Folks
    I am beginning to wonder if somehow Windows Vista is messing with the way ToEE is handling the quest. I just checked the 3 saves that I mentioned in the previous post, and all of them show that the flower hasn't been "placed" yet. just to make sure I did it right the code I used to check the status in the console was: game.global_flags[875] . For all three maps the answer came up zero, which if I read a previous post correctly, means the Lotus hasn't been "grown" yet.
    The only reason I am wondering Vista is that I am seeing another "bug" that I never saw on my old XP Laptop. Twice now, after rescuing Jaer from the Earth Node, and returning to Hommlet, he would give his "Thank You" speach, but I he would still be "In the Party" as a blue circle.
    The Royal Canadian
     
    The Royal Canadian, Jul 16, 2009
    #15
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