Well I've just finished off Z-what's-'er'-name and I'd just like to say thanks to all responsible for keeping ToEE alive so people like me can come across and enjoy something like this game once in a while. OK, it's buggy and in some repects incomplete, but it's playable and the effort that's been put into making it so is obvious. The good bits of it are very good indeed, and it seems to me a great pity it was not finished and its engine and ethos didn't spawn a series like the infinity engine games. FWIW, a few impressions and comments from a first time player: 1. The combat system was a revelation to me since I've never played PnP D&D. I found it hugely enjoyable to have so many more options available in combat (than in BG/IWD for example) and the detailed reports available for each roll taught me a hell of a lot I didn't know about the mechanics of D&D combat. The implementation itself is IMO stunningly playable. It's the touches like the movement control /waypoint system and the clearly enumerated friends/foes affected by a spell that highlight just how well it was thought out. 2. I started off in the Temple getting really annoyed not being able to rest easily and having to treck back to town all the time. However as I became more familar with the combat system I figured out how to explore and fight cautiously, avoiding getting hurt and using too many spells so as extend each expedition into the temple. I think the hassle of getting healed up/re-spelled etc encourages this, and it makes the whole thing much more real and intense experience so now I would not change this at all. The depth of the combat system means you really should be able to survive without reloading (except maybe with some of the main boss battles), so reloading begins to feel like cheeting. A different experience with a very different feel to, say, IWD2, and in a good way. 3. What I found striking in this game is the stark, savage and not-immediately-obvious consequences of decisions you have to make during the game. In games like BG/NWN you get pretty obvious story/dialogue options for good and evil parties - here you seem to be able to make fatal, or at least game changing, decisions quite easily if you are not wary. I'm guessing much of this comes from the orginal text of the T1-4 adventure, but a couple of comments on the translation of this concept to CRPG: a) The idea of difficult, irrevocable and possibly game terminating decisions really jacks up the tension putting you in real "WTF am I going to do about this" type situations, but I think there should be significantly more of this in the early game, including some big game terminating traps. The first time player will get bitten by some of this, and thereafter treat the game and all they encounter in it with a lot more respect. Up the terror rating early, so to speak. b) I do not know this, but I'm guessing that a good DM would handle some of the critical encounters in such a way the players are left in no doubt that thay are in a perilous situation and they better think very carefully about what they are going to do. I imagine much discussion ensues amonst the players in a PnP game. I am not sure it works so well the way it's implemented in ToEE (which is much the same as other CRPG's). For example, I was stunned to have my game terminated on going down to meet Henrick and agreeing to join the temple in order to get out of an immediate fight. OK, the dialogue tree option sort of said that when you look at it again, but unless you know that sort of thing is likely to happen you won't take it seriously (my point in a), so the moment can be ruined to some extent. In other words, if you are going to put this kind of decision making tension into encounters, which I think is an excellent idea, I think the player should feel that tension and have time to fust about, feel the terror and the gravity of their situation before selecting what they hope to be the lesser of evils rather than just click a dialogue option or click an artefact and bang, that's it.
Hi Greg, First off, thank you. While I am a minor contributor to the Co8 mods, I believe I am allowed to say thank you for the encouragement you gave us. We strive to make the game better, through reduction of bugs or additional content, and are glad that your enjoyed the game. Please stick around, in a week (April 25th) the Co8 moderators are releasing a new module which includes new content for us all. What makes ToEE great is the replayability and the chance to experience and tackle the content with different party setups, to test your ability to handle encounters. Thanks for the nice words
IIRC, Co8 fixed this, and now there's a place in the Temple you can rest safely at. You can also always rest dangerously and hope there isn't an encounter. I've had a similar experience to yours with TOEE when I first played it, it's one of the games I bought for my first PC (except that unlike you I didn't yet have the advantage of having Co8 fixes and extra content; in fact, I didn't have Internet, so my game didn't even have official patches). And yeah, stick around, the guys around here can do wonders to the game. If you're looking for a challenge, try out KoTB.
