Rannos & Gremag Revenge + Assassin?

(Not sure to post this in General Modification since it relates to the changes to R&G or just under TOEE. If someone wants to move it to the appropriate location, I'd appreciate it.)

I didn't realize anything was up (other than my lv6-7 party getting 5 TPKs before I planned specifically for the battle followed by another 7 TPKs before surviving), but reading some discussion of the Revenge quest and something about an assassin related to Lareth made me wonder: Is there supposed to be an Assassin (carrying a note regarding his orders to kill you) in the Revenge group? If not, I managed to get both of those encounters simultaneously, which was simply not fun, especially since my wizard always entered the map right next to the assassin (changing the formation in any way made no difference) and was usually dead within 2 turns of the battle's start (4 attacks + sneak attack... on a PC with no armor... right).

If the Assassin I had to deal with is indeed separate from the R&GR encounter, it might be wise to either ensure that they don't show up together or only allow them to do so for parties with at least an average level of 8 or 9 (I'm assuming preventing idiot PC casters from entering right next to the Assassin isn't possible).

One other question about something I noticed in this encounter: What's the deal with enemy casters using spells in preparation for battle while you talk to them or their leader? I took to mashing '1' to speed through the dialogue with R/G in order to limit their casters to only 1 prep spell instead of the 2-3 they can get otherwise (they seem to get a free cast every time you respond to anything in the dialogue, as long as they're done with any previous casting animation).

 

I allways think that this battle is very complex to win... Even with righ-level character, ya have a group of foes that shall prepare yer spells just before the battle, and a really bad position to keep! I all give thanks to the fact that there are no archers in the group, 'cose even with just one of the traders as the head of that warband, there are space for just two of yer melee fighter - and they usually are in bad positions, becose of that damn table - and yer spellcasters and archer are usually the firt targets of that bastards! Hard deal!

 

The assassin is a bitch encounter. so don't worry. That guy seems to be locked onto any wizard or sorcerer you have in the group. At least it was in my experience. The assassin you're speaking of comes out after you sell Lareth's named items. The other one is part of the opening vignette for Chaotic Evil, I believe. Just get your spell caster outta harm's way ASAP.

IIRC enemy spell casters and even neutral and good NPC's come pre-buffed. Makes the game a little harder. No biggie. Dispel magic and the like normally take care of that.

What, you've never pre-buffed before a known encounter before? oke:

Hmmm.. trying to post after several screwdriver's seems to pose a bit of a typing/spelling problem. That and I'm out of Vodka AND orange juice. Still got lots of ice though...

 

Okay, so that assassin is a separate encounter and I just had the misfortune of having him show up at the same time as R&G, right? Given that R&G's revenge encounter is already quite tough unless you have been maximizing your XP gains and/or xp-farming random encounters, I stand by my suggestion (assuming it's possible) of making sure those two encounters are kept separate. Throwing a strong (lv8, isn't he?) rogue that is very likely to both place high in the initiative roll and terminate the nearest caster in his first turn into an already-challenging battle seems like frustration for frustration's sake. =/ Like I said, even knowing and planning for the encounter, it took me 8 tries to pull off a win with those two encounters being combined.

Not really a viable option when the assassin gets his turn before the caster in excess of 90% of the time, can kill the caster in one turn, and is too close for a meatshield to interpose himself.:shrug:

They don't seem to come pre-buffed so much as they cast their buffs the instant you enter the map. Either way, that doesn't address that they buff in the middle of dialogue but can be held to only one casting by rushing through the chat. One of those is a bug, no? Either they shouldn't be buffing there, or (if they are intended to approximate being pre-buffed for the fight) the player shouldn't be able to prevent them from casting part of their buffs, I should think. I can accept that they are waiting for you and hear you coming up the planks, giving them time to buff, but the current implementation of that concept is kinda hinky.

 

The assassin will spawn as a random encounter (usually on the road from Hommlet to Nulb) if you sold some of Lareth's goods to R&G. If you didn't sell Lareth's stuff to them, or did but didn't get the RE, the assassin will join the Revenge group in Nulb. He makes that fight, already a tough one, extremely difficult as you discovered. Even by himself as a RE, the assassin can usually be counted on to take out your best spellcaster as he will almost always show up right next to the last character in your party. I've had some success in protecting my casters by reordering them in the order at the bottom of the screen - not the formation. Move your wizard to the far left spot (i.e. make him/her your face man for a bit) and see if that helps.

 

That is a modded behavior (by Liv, IIRC) designed to simulate how your PCs will pre-buff before a fight. I think it's a lot more intelligent than the alternative of NPC mages just standing around until combat starts, then wasting several turns buffing before they start throwing offensive spells around. Sure you can probably cut them down a buff or two by rushing through the dialog, but the modders have a hard time stopping us from meta-gaming.

 

Or do as I do- Make SURE you kill both the Traders in their fight- you may have to prebuff and reload with that battle too- but not as many times-

AND - if you are a bit of roleplaying purist- you at least KNEW to prepare for touble going to confront the Traders...

Of course, you will miss out on the XP in the Assasin encounter, but I personally find THAT little encounter nearly as annoying and necessary to reload as the infamous Balor encounter.

My two cents worth...

 

I like the little Guy, he's got great gear and is really vulnerable to spells like Hideous laughter. If your spellcaster survives the initial encounter he can run away from the assassin and fire off spells until the killer gets a fit of the giggles.
I always thought when the chief assassin (whose name I forget how to spell), returns after fooling the party should have a couple slightly less powerfull assassins with her.

 

Can someone please explain to me the Trader's Quest in full, esp. the "revenge" bit? It's been a long time since the last time I completed it.

Nowadays since I know what's happening I just go to them, sell the named items and try to dispatch them without dialog. Terribly unimaginative, I know. After I send them to their makers I'll get the assasin on a random encounter but I have no idea what the revenge encounter is.

 

To get the revenge encounter, you have to attack R&G, but let them escape (they'll attempt to do so as soon as one of them has taken a fair amount of damage). They'll show up with some "friends" later on to attack you.

 

But remember that just one of then shall stay alive! I almost shall kill one of then before they fade out, what helps a lot when the other one comes crying for revenge! One sneaker is bad enough in that enconter to me!

 

I agree, kill Rannos Davl first if you can. I still haven't figured out how to kill both when at low levels - 3rd, maybe 4th.

Edit: @Ted (or anyone else in the know) - does anyone react favorably to the Butcher of Hommlet reputation. I was kind of hoping R+G would.