Question about bards

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by m7600, Sep 8, 2020.

Remove all ads!
  1. m7600

    m7600 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2020
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi, thanks for approving my account.

    Long story short, I'm using the GOG version of TToEE. My party has a level 4 half-elf bard with 18 Charisma and 11 points in Perform. I mention this because, if I understand correctly, bards get bonus spells depending on those stats. The problem, however, is that she seems to have too many bonus spells. For example, she is supposed to be able to cast Cat's Grace only once per day. But the thing is that she's able to cast it up to 4 times per day, even when the spell wheel says "0/1". After the fourth cast, I finally get the message "Cannot Cast (out of available spells)".

    I haven't counted how many times she is able to cast lower level spell like Cure Light Wounds, but it's a lot. At this point, my bard is a much better healer than my druid, which to me at least just seems crazy. She's also a better arcane caster than my wizard.

    Is this situation normal? Maybe it's just me, being more used to 2nd edition than 3rd edition rules, when bards did not even have access to certain spells, like Cure Light Wounds. But in Icewind Dale 2, which follows more or less the same rules as The Temple of Elemental Evil, bards are not this overpowered when it comes to spells.

    Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

    P.S: here are some screenshots showing what I mean.

    01.png 02.png 03.png 04.png
     
  2. Oleg Ben Loleg

    Oleg Ben Loleg Established Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    7
    Hi, as far as I know perform has nothing to do with casting spells it applies to his songs:
    "A bard must have at least 3 ranks in a Perform skill to inspire courage in his allies, or to use his countersong or his fascinate ability. A bard needs 6 ranks in a Perform skill to inspire competence, 9 ranks to use his suggestion ability, 12 ranks to inspire greatness, 15 ranks to use his song of freedom ability, 18 ranks to inspire heroics, and 21 ranks to use his mass suggestion ability."https://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/perform.htm
    Are you using shortcut keys for your spells, because when I use that for the lvl 0 spell read magic I am able to use that spell up to my maximum of all spells. But this does not work the other way around from top to buttom so to say. If I can use only one 4rth lvl spell even triggered with a key I can still use it only once. So this does not explain why in your example the bard can cast cats grace up to four times.
     
  3. Nightcanon

    Nightcanon Garrulous Halfling

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    437
    Likes Received:
    29
    You are correct that you should only have 3 first level spell slots at level 4 (2 for level, +1 bonus for CHA of 18). I haven't noticed this behaviour with any of my bards. My first thought is that you can in fact cast FOUR first level spells a day if you want to (using your three level 1 slots, then your single level 2 slot), but that doesn't explain Cat's Grace (which should be only available once). It seems likely that something is wrong with the spell level assigned to the spells. Are you curing Light wounds (level 1), or Minor wounds (level 0)?
     
  4. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    12,066
    Likes Received:
    108
    Not to be obtuse but do you have the Co8 mod installed? It should certainly work with Wine. Otherwise, this may be some original bug
    the Co8 crew fixed back in 03.
     
  5. m7600

    m7600 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2020
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the quick replies!

    Glad to know that this is a bug, as opposed to a broken mechanic of 3.5 edition rules in general. I though I was loosing my mind there for a second. Bards being better healers than druids, imagine that...

    I'm not using shortcut keys for the spells. As for the healing spell, I was indeed referring to Cure Light Wounds (lvl 1) instead of Cure Minor Wounds (lvl 0).

    I don't have the co8 mod installed, but will do soon.

    For now I can just roleplay this by deciding not to cast the extra spells, even if the monsters are crushing me during certain battles.
     
  6. Endarire

    Endarire Ronald Rynnwrathi

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    44
    @m7600
    Temple+ and Co8 are mods that work well together. Each of these fixed and added separate things. Some people have preferred one or none, but I've preferred them together for ToEE.
     
Our Host!