Proposal for Co8 patch 3.05

On the Atari boards and elsewhere, I often see people complaining about bugs in the Co8 patch 3.04 that have already been fixed in moebius2778's temple.zip (for example the spiked chain bug). What about integrating those fixes into the Co8 package and releasing the whole as Co8 3.05? Would make things a lot easier, and clearer ... right now, people have to download two separate fan patches (Co8 & moebius) and install them in the right order.

 

Would be nice to have it in 1 package I suppose but I would prefer to have some extra stuff in an update. Still it's a sound idea so if you want to go ahead with it, that's fine with me. Problem is I'm not proficient with installer software and I'm afraid I might mess things up when substituting the old temple.dll with the new one plus other files.
Another issue is that the site is down and we have currently no proper place though the download section seem to still work though if you access it directly. You might want to mail Exitium or Ausir about this to see if anything can be restored.

Come to think of it actually there's been quite a bit of backlog on work which was planned to go into v3.0.4 but didn't make it. If you're willing to put in some work, I could show you the relevant threads. It's basically done, but just needs to be coded in... meticulously... I should add.

 

I have a lot of spare time right now and could try build a new patch. Can you point me to the relevant threads? I think Nomad_Wanderer tried to put some kind of version control system in place, maybe I should contact him first (he might also be able to help me with the installer stuff). As for being meticulous, that goes without saying.

Anyway, I have started sifting through the Co8 files because I still intend to do a German localized version. I'll probably have more than a few questions (lots of more or less undocumented changes in there).

 

Well I think for starters it would be nice to get some new items in.
See: http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=979

Would be nice to get the Attack of Opportunity bug with crossbows fixed as well if we could change range increment to its proper values. The bug needs to be confirmed though. Might as well restore all correct range increment values while we're doing it.
See: http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1232

The old list of proported changes is here of course. Not everything made it though. Your dialogue fix, toejam's NPC levelup fix, my puzzle mod and a few minor item fixes were added to v3.0.4. The rest are still hanging in limbo though.
See: http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1002

Could you run a quick check and make a comparison with the fixlist here: http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1115
Spugnoir shouldn't have those extra crafting feats. I hope we can check this and get it rectified if we haven't done it yet.

Thanks for the offer. I'll try to help when I can. Just very busy with RL nowadays. Sorry. Still it's good to have new people handling the mod pack. With different buildmasters and a different pair of eyes, it's easier sometimes to catch problems, earlier modders might have missed.
Cheers.

 

Okay, I'll ...

1. try to add the new items in protos.tab (how do we make them available in the game though? through dialogue maybe?)

2. try to confirm the Attack of Opportunity bug concerning crossbows and change the range increment value if necessary (also need to check values for other weapons)

3. sift through the stuff that hasn't gone into 3.04

4. check if Spugnoir has those extra feats or not

Would be nice, too, if we could get some of those kids back in ... maybe we could add a new quest ("Find the lost kids of Hommlet!").

 

The craftable items will be made available through the respective Craft feats. So we'll need to change item_creation.mes as well. Don't worry, once the stuff is coded in protos.tab, adding the appropriate entries to item_creation.mes shouldn't be too time consuming. Admittedly I have a few reservations about it, seeing as Craft is already overpowered but they do conform to 3.5e rules.
I was wondering whether we could in later versions incorporate a time script to advance time to limit crafting. There is after all a time script to get random encounters, to trigger Thrommel's reward etc... but it may not be working perfectly

The non-craftable items can be made available through a vendor or through a chest item (if we can manage these). If we can't then dialogue is the easiest way to do it.

I wanted to do a Elven Ranger type character from the nearby Gnarley Forest who perhaps would be in Emridy Meadows doing patrols or on a quest of his own (it will need a spawn script though). He could double as a vendor for the composite bows from Shiftyjim's list and perhaps even get you to be involved in his quest/business.
An easy way to do it would be his comrades were slaughtered by that nasty Hill Giant in Emridy Meadows (explains presence of Elven Chain there) and alone he was unable to defeat the Giant... and so might want to enlist your help. But that's a bit too simple. I'm sure you can come up with something better.
The most important thing is to get the spawning done right and make sure it is stable. Try spawning any existing character first with the heartbeat script. If it works make a new character in description.mes and protos.tab and we're set.

Anyway, that can probably be left to a bit later or perhaps livonya would be able to set it up faster. Try tying up the other loose ends first. We'll see what can be done then.

 

I think one way to make things easier for people to contribute is to upload protos.tab or any other modded file(s) as an attachment in this thread once a part of the coding is completed. That makes it easier if anyone wants to check for errors and also gives us a general idea of progress.

There are some other things which could be tackled like an AI mod (which would IMHO be important enough to warrant an update by itself but needs to be carefully considered). There was the problem of witches in the Tower casting Bull's Strength on party members. If we can't get rid of it, we can always change that to an offensive spell like Magic Missile. I didn't like the idea of casting Enlarge either (usually on the with herself). It serves no good offensive purpose and merely makes the witch an easier target. Would be nice to see some casters having Unholy Blight and Melf's Acid Arrow as well.

There were also some ideas restoring creature special abilities to make them more unique.
See: http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31769
Ideas:
"... ie. Bodak in the protos.tab file does have a ('Slay Living' class_cleric 5) in thier abilities - I've yet to see them use it or maybe did not pay attention when they did.
I suppose it would not take much to add a ('Hold Person' class_wizard 3) to the Gorgon and Basilisk to get somewhat of the petrification effect type attack out of them."
Some creatures already have those abilities in protos.tab. It might be a strategy.tab issue to get them working though.

And of course just altering stats to make them more appropriate to 3.5e (like changing Galeb Duhrs resistance). There was a thread on Atari on a proper 3.5e representation of Zuggtmoy as quite a few players feel that she is too easy an end boss. I'll try to hunt for it.

Anyway I'm just throwing out stuff on what was planned and can be done without too much fuss. Don't feel overwhelmed. You don't have include everything. Just do whatever feels most comfortable first and we can slowly add on from there.

 

I noticed you wondering how to put new items in game...

I just thought I should let you know that there is a very easy way to put new items on pre-existing monsters/chests. And you can also deleate items on pre-existing monserts/chest.

For the quest that I made where you have to bring Brother Smyth a giant's head in order to prove you are worthy of buying his master work items I needed to make sure that all the giants in the game would drop a "head" if they were killed.

To get these heads on the Hill Giants all I had to do was create a PY/PYC script for the monster, and add that to the san_dying (column 280) in the protos.

So for example for the Giants I created a new PY file called 00269hill giant and inserted 269 0 0 0 0 into the san_dying column.

I then used this PY file to place the head on the corpse when the creature is killed... note that it only does this if the quest is unsolved.

def san_dying( attachee, triggerer ):
if (game.quests[100].state == qs_accepted):
create_item_in_inventory ( 12602, attachee )
if (game.quests[100].state == qs_mentioned):
create_item_in_inventory ( 12602, attachee )
if (game.quests[100].state == qs_unknown):
create_item_in_inventory ( 12602, attachee )
return RUN_DEFAULT


By using the PY files and the san_dying you can do anything you want with a monster's/chest's inventory....

Livonya

 

Nice scripting work. Thanks for the info.
I think it's probably Ok to write it this way too, in case you want to save a bit of space.

def san_dying( attachee, triggerer ):
if (game.quests[100].state != qs_completed):
create_item_in_inventory ( 12602, attachee )
return RUN_DEFAULT

 

Ha, I forgot about !=

At first I tried >= and it didn't work, so I did each line, but yeah != is better... it just skipped my mind.

Livonya

 

Sure. To tell the truth, I think 3.0.4 was rather a misnomer with all the incredible fixes that moebius made. It really already should have been v4.0 at that point.
But no one made any fuss about it so things just went along. I still think it's a disservice to moebius's work. Anyway now that the few bugs that were introduced in the earlier versions of his temple.dll have been ironed out, v4.0 would be an apt name, especially if Livonya can complete part of his work on introducing new content.

 

Moebius's work is awesome.

There were a few really annoying bugs left in TOEE that were preventing me from playing TOEE, but it seems to be running much better now.

His work is awesome. It is what got me back into modding TOEE.

The one thing I would like to see him do is see if he can't tinker with the hard coding for searching for secret doors.

Currently it is just stupid how easy it is to find secret doors. I tried to find a way to fix it but it is definitely hard coded.

But I guess that is kind of minor.

Anyway, I am definitely working on a traps mod.

Here is what I have so far:

1) No experience gain for setting off traps.

Currently TOEE rewards more exp for setting off traps than for disarming them. Duh. I can't stop the engine from giving exp for setting off traps, but I can take away the experience.

In my version you will get no experience for setting off traps and in some instances you will actually lose experience for being clumsy. I don't want to offset the balance of TOEE by giving out extra exp, so my traps will actually take away exp so that the end result is more combat and more threats to survivial without making the game easier by providing more experience earlier in the game.

This part is 90% done.


2) Increasing search requirement's for traps.

Searching for traps was stupid easy. Many traps had a search qualifyer of 21, but since the engine takes 20 for the search dice roll this is just silly. I am upping the search requirements to make them hard to find.

This part is 100% done.


3) I am going to add at least 25 new traps. Many of which will have random effects.

This part is easy to do, but just takes some time... especially on the more creative traps... I will do at least one trap that involves some new encounters with more complex dialogs and such... but we will see.

I have already added a trap to the rainbow rock. When you set it off it spawns an undead ambush, but there is a small chance it will do something much worse! I won't spoil it.


4) I will give the traps a bit more meat. Currently they don't really do enough to worry about them... but with a little work setting off traps will be highly annoying... he he he.

Anyway, that's what I am up to at the moment...

Livonya

 

Great stuff. Could you post a little regarding the existing code for the completed files.
Perhaps you could also upload an updated file as an attachment (I assume increasing search requirement's for traps was done by modifying a protos.tab field). Once you think a certain part of coding is complete, uploading it makes it easier for others who are interested to work on the same file.

Crichton may want to add some spellcaster templates for ambushes. I think it's a nice idea. Too many melee combatants gets boring after awhile. We could have skeleton mages to start with. Apart from protos.tab, we'll have to put in some extra entries in description.mes and strategy.tab. We can reuse old graphics.

 

One thing about the traps, I would recommend against moving away from the 3.5 rules. Traps are given a CR (challenge rating) just like monsters and XP is awarded for surviving the encounter whether you disable the trap or set it off. (The additional reward for disabling it is not taking damage/dying). While I agree that traps should definitely not give more XP for triggering them than disabling them, and can even see that arguement of giving no XP for triggering them (as was the case in previous editions of D&D), taking away already earned XP for setting off a trap not only completely deviates from the 3.5 rules, but also adds insult to injury. "Whoops, sorry your rogue botched his disable device roll and died, but everyone that lives loses 100xp too." seems rather extreme.