Piracy, terrorism or activism?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Rocktoy, Oct 4, 2013.

Remove all ads!
  1. Rocktoy

    Rocktoy Established Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    355
    Likes Received:
    0
    It has been months since I have been able to be active in this forum and for some reasons the general discussion thread seems to have gone under slumbering. The only resent try to bring on a discussion was by gazra and his rather good propaganda video. So my humble try is to open a discussion about a very recent topic. Which considers something evil as Greenpeace. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24170129) As it happens some of those “true believers” tried to occupy a Russian oil drilling platform but ended up being boarded by Russian forces (allegedly by FSB). As it happens one of these fools is a Finnish national and thus we are constantly updated by their blight, she have among other things complained that in a Russian prison she cannot follow her vegan diet. They are detained as they are charged of piracy, facing ten to fifteen years prison time in a lovely Murmanskian prison.

    Are these people just potheads we should ignore? I do not know, pirates perhaps not, terrorist definetly. But is an ekoterrorist equial with an al qaida member?
     
  2. tomthefighter

    tomthefighter Errr......

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    4
    I find that radicals of all types should be of concern ...


    And I think that gal is going to have MUCH more to worry about in that commie prison than her "vegan" diet ...
     
  3. Hugh Manetee

    Hugh Manetee Established Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    0
    They were trying to raise awareness about the dangers to us all about unrestricted drilling in the arctic.

    I believe they were in international waters when the boat was taken.

    Whether you believe in global warming or not this looks like another step towards
    a totalitarian state in Russia where all dissent is punishd with exessive force.

    Take Pussy Riot's sentencing or Alexander Litvinenko's murder.
    Putin and his cronies are turning Russia into a bandit state.
    It seems one of the quickest ways to prison other than openly opposing Putin,
    is to develop a successful business that some one with connections to the government
    decides they want.

    Try and do a little research into the subject before posting flippant remarks.
     
  4. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    5
    I have to wonder how exactly the "peaceful" Greenpeace activists were going to successfully occupy an active oil rig without using some form of force.

    I can't say that I am confident that the Russians are going to operate an oil rig in the Arctic with due care for the environment.

    Perhaps the Vegan should have thought more carefully about her diet before ending in a Russian prison. I'm not sure Russian jailers care about their prisoners' dietary concerns.

    Maybe the whole thing is to raise awareness about how difficult it is to be vegan. :p
     
  5. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    3,721
    Likes Received:
    49
    Or how terrible anyone is that has an opinion that isn't in line with green "peace" and how they see the world.

    I'm sure there were more diplomatic avenues to approach.
     
  6. Hugh Manetee

    Hugh Manetee Established Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    0
    Guys you are right.

    What was I thinking?

    People shouldn't take direct action to change the world.
    That's what we elect our governments for.

    We certainly shouldn't start doing things like patrolling the streets to fight crime,
    or campaign on environmental issues or work place saftey.

    Especially if your lifestyle is different from us normal people.

    Sheesh we should all be staying home and watching television.
     
  7. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    3,721
    Likes Received:
    49
    Well, that's not exactly what I meant.

    I understand the need for action and sometimes even violence, if all other means of settling matters have been exhausted.

    My observations of how this particular organization goes about things, leads me to believe that they prefer the big show downs and large explosions of media and fan fare to negotiation and reasoning.

    They do have a "reality" TV show now and ... well you just have to see one episode to understand where I'm coming from.

    Again, I just want to be clear that I only speak for myself and my opinion.
     
  8. Hugh Manetee

    Hugh Manetee Established Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wasn't aware of the show.
    I do know that there are some very flakey people involved green politics.
    Probablly the ones on the reality show are the most ego driven ones.

    At the end of the day the organzation exists to bring environmental issues to
    our attenttion so we can force our politicians to act.
    So they court media attention.

    I was just suprised by the reaction that they got what they deserved because they
    were different.

    I'm also pretty sure the authorities in Russia see need to negotiate with anybody.

    This also shouldn't be seen as an attack on the Russian peolple.
    They just seem to be heading for some dark time at the moment.
     
  9. Hugh Manetee

    Hugh Manetee Established Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    0
    Or maybe I should lighten up and regain my sense of humour.
     
  10. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    12,589
    Likes Received:
    317
    I didn't know they had a show...

    Down here in the merry old land of Oz, where the Japanese come to practise 'scientific whaling' and Greenpeace come to stop them, we have front row seats to all this. It often gets ridiculous. Greenpeace will board ships on the high seas (which, by definition, is piracy), and the Japanese detain them.

    NIPPON SPOKESMAN: They're pirates.
    G_P SPOKESMAN: Thats ridiculous. Such rhetoric is nonsense, childish and immature rubbish. This is a serious problem we are trying to address in an adult manner.

    And anyway, they're kidnappers! KIDNAPPERS!!!


    ...and I think, surely the whales deserve better than THIS...?

    But Hugh is right, you stand up for your rights, or don't complain when they are taken away. And if the current Russian regime are even a fraction as environmentally disastrous as the Soviets (who turned Novaya Zemlya into a radioactive slagheap) then we all have a right to say, not on my planet.

    But maybe from a safe distance. Diplomatically.
     
  11. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    3,721
    Likes Received:
    49
    In another perspective; would it be acceptable to forcibly stop and seize a truck full of hamburger patties destined to Wendy's because "Eating meat is Murder"?

    It is never OK to force you opinions on another, regardless of how altruistic you believe your opinion to be. Cultures vary in different countries, what's needed is empathy. I believe you must be able to understand the other sides feelings before you can attempt an intelligent dialog about change.
     
  12. Rocktoy

    Rocktoy Established Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    355
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen, brother.

    Yep.

    As the BBC article says: “This comes a day after four Greenpeace members tried to board a Russian oil platform to prevent it from drilling.”
    Firstly: one cannot have a drilling platform on international waters, well one can but that would be a violation of the international law.
    Secondly: any naval vessel sailing under a national flag is considered as native soil of that nation just as any embassy or avian craft.
    Thirdly: correct me if I am wrong, the international maritime law does not extend the sanctuary of international waters to pirates, which of course is the very reason why the mighty Russians did employ the criminal charge of piracy. They are Russians, not idiots.


    When my ancestors sailed to conquer Northumbria, East-Anglia and Cent they also build settlements on Iceland, Newfoundland and Greenland. They conquered the Britons as so many others before they, the natives of the Vinland were much better warriors as that colony was overrun. The one on the isle of mist and legends still exists and it has the oldest still functioning democratic parliament but the one on Greenland died because of a climate change. When the Northmen settled in Greenland thousand years ago it was a green island, they grazed cattle there and grew wheat! The small ice age begun during the mid 14th century and Greenland became the frozen waste what it is or used to be ever since and of course the Vikings starved to death as the climate change was so sudden. The climax of this small ice age in Finland was met during the winter between 1695 and 1697 when 28% of the entire population died of famine. And YES that winter lasted two years; the chronicles mention how people skied to midsummer church.

    Yes the climate is changing towards a warmer one but that process begun way before the industrial age. Also during the immense history of planet Earth never has the climate been stabile. I see it as enormously anthropocentric and arrogant to think that something as miniscule as the human race could change or even influence such a gigantic and complex system as Earth’s climate.

    Btw. The correct term would be “another step back” and not towards.



    The Pussy Riot’s feminatzis held their “performance” in a church, they defiled holy ground. They were sentenced from not performing but from blasphemy, not entirely sure if that is the correct translation, however that is punishable in every northern country, I guess it is the same in England or US too. One can perform whatever one likes on a public street and that must be tolerated under the notion of freedom speech but when one invades a sacred ground, a church, and violates that sanctity one deserves no mercy.

    Litvinenko’s case is a Kennedy case, bitten and killed by one’s own hounds. Then again Alex was a deflected ex spook. Of course he was silenced by his former employers before he could leak any important information. Both UK and US governments would have acted exactly the same. Although the US is the only country that still has a active concentration camp.


    They are only taking back their “super power” status for which their nuclear arsenal should have already given.

    Please, do the same.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  13. Rocktoy

    Rocktoy Established Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    355
    Likes Received:
    0
    Or bring a nice cross shaped wood to burn on the back yard of the church we just lit, or go breaking the windows of members of certain ethnic minority. And they call me a nazi...

    Yes, that is exactly the reason why we ELECT our governments, they do change the world, slow and unsurely perhaps, but they do it without vigilance (excluding the US). That is the one thing that separates us from the “developing countries” and the rest of the barbarians…
     
  14. Rocktoy

    Rocktoy Established Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    355
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen.
     
  15. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

    Joined:
    May 16, 2007
    Messages:
    2,148
    Likes Received:
    1
    The Pussy Riot's Issue it's completely different.
    Like it or not the church, they were disrespectful. They insulted and offended everyone there, and their beliefs, which they have their rights to.
    It was wrong, not becuase they offended the church, but because they offended normal people, for no reason.


    Now, the GP vs Russia is another matter.


    I'm from Argentina, and Japanese ships DESTROY our seas. And they can't be touched because it's 'scientific whaling'. Of course, our own governments gives a crap about it, and the few who do are ignored by the UN or whoever manages these issues. There's too much money involved, and too powerful Industries behind.

    Now, the GP activists might have been foolish, but, contrary to the Pussy Riots, they weren't trying to offend anyone, less normal people; quite the opposite actually.

    A bunch of guys trying to hang a flag hardly counts as terrorism. Boarding a oil drilling plant barely counts as piracy (piracy is for boarding ships, not stations). Saying they were carrying drugs on their ship because they had morphine on their SOS med-kit is ridiculous.

    Basically, they're just scapegoats. Someone is pulling strings to make an example of them, and we clearly know who is.

    (btw, aside of vegan diets, the latinamericans activists are suffering a lot form detention. We're almost the exact opposite climate-wise from Russians, and they're getting sick just from sustaining the cold without proper shelter)


    Disclaimer:
    this is probably the Forum with most variated nationalities I've been.
    By no means I'm attacking any or trying to be offensive. :)
     
Our Host!