I just started playing ToEE recently, and I love the look and the combat mechanics. I am still trying to get used to all of the options in combat! I am a big fan of the Fallouts, Arcanum, and the Baldur's Gates. The combat of ToEE is as fun as the infinity engine with all the tactics capable with turn-based combat. However, I do find the game a bit challenging with my party of three: Fighter, Cleric and Mage. I was level 1 when I went to the moathouse, and got my butt handed to me with the thieve sneak attacks. So I went back and forth between Hommlett and the Moathouse looking for random encounters I could handle until I was level 3. Then I went back and was able to clear out the first floor pretty effectively. When I used the stairs, however, I found I was badly outgunned and I've taken to random encounters again until I'm level 4. Is the game that hard, or I am missing some crucial combat tactics? Do most people play with a party of six? If you have a party of six, does everyone get the same experience points for killing an enemy as a party of three (or does the party of three get double per each person?) Am I able to add three more people to my party at this point if I so desire? Here are my character builds: Fighter, main stats STR 17, DEX 15, CON 16. I want a dual wielder and that is why his DEX is 15. Cleric, main stats STR 12, CON, 12, WIS 17. She is my healer right now of course. Expecting more powerful attack spells as she levels up. Mage, main stats DEX 14, CON 14, INT 17. I'm taking advantage of Magic Missile and Melf's Acid Arrow. I'm assuming as I get more area attack spells it will be easier to handle large number of enemies. I also find that when you are thrown into battle, it is hard to get your mage to a safe distance due to attacks of opportunity. Any hints or suggestions from fellow ToEE players is much appreciated.
Hehe...yeah, it's pretty hard at level one. I usually make all the hommlet quests (boring, at this point) which will take you to lvl 2, at that point you'll make it easier in the moathouse. Still, a party of only three it's really challenging indeed. At first you'll find outmatched most of the time...but yes, when the wiz get more lvls, you'll handle much more better large numbers of enemies (in fact, you'll probably vaporize an entire encounter in just one round). An advice? You should need a rogue. You'll make it without a party's face charcter (the cleric has diplomacy, you should buy as many points you can there, and intimidate for the fighter), but many locks and other things would be easier with a rogue. Probably you'll be doing well in hiring Furnok (the moustache man at hommlet), or Wonnilon, who it's a good shooter (and has a repeating crossbow later) and since it's rogue/fighter and small, it's an awesome flanker/support dude and can use many weapons. If you're going to do that, give wonnilon another level of fighter for the feats, and let he be the two wielding guy, and give your fighter a reach weapon. If you want more NPCs, Meleny it's a good choice: it's really weak, but a powerful druid (many damaging-buffing spells) and since it has high charisma, you could multclass as many people do, as a sorcerer for more firepower. make your cleric a brutal tank (the heaviest armor, the heaviest shield) and have him close to the wiz, and finish of all the guys who past thru your fighter. And if you're going to play with few charcters, you should put to good use all the mind dominating spells, to compensate the lack of number: you'll be wining temporal allies from your enemies, and they would kill each other.
Well, I sortof have the very vague impression that the game was meant to play with at least 4 characters, preferably 5. The game does make the difference tho' when you're with less - xp wise that is. You can add more characters, for that you've got to go to an inn with a book on the counter - the Welcome Wench has one. If you click on the book, you'll get into the party- modifyer, where you can create, add & delete characters. Mind you, those new members are lvl 1 and *naked*... I mean no weapons or armor . Anyhow, I seldom take the time anymore to do those soapy quests, mostly I just rush to the woodcutter and "random encounter" in the deklo groves until I get bored and then I do Emredy meadows and the moathouse. Lvl 5 is my typical temple entry point. Anyhow, add a rogue and maybe a druid, that should help. I hope I helped you.
Thank you! Those all sound like very good suggestions. I prefer no NPCs in my party at this time, and I do put the fighter up front, with the cleric two paces back (to heal), and the wizard a few paces behind the cleric (to fire bolts and cast spells). Am I able to add a thief of my own creation to my party at this point, or would I need to start a new game? EDIT: Thanks for the info on adding characters nyarlathotep. And yes, you did help. :largeclap
No, you should be able to add your own rogue. Go to Hommlet or Nulb, and in one of the inns (both villages have one) you'll see a big open book. Click it. There you can add or remove prviously made charcters to your party without problem. BE aware, they will appear naked and at level one, so if you remove a charcter you'll lose the equipment. Edit: Haha, i got ninjad!
Hell, a three-character party ought to be at LEAST level 3 by the time they get to the Moathouse. The Hommlet/Deklo Grove quests hand out THAT much experience. 'Course without a rogue you're going to be missing out on some primo treasure ... and quite a few quests, unless you're spending skill points on cross-class skills like Sense Motive and Gather Information. Hint, hint. And there's NO "designed-for" party number. I've had as much fun playing a SINGLE character as I've had with a party of four or five. In fact a single Druid kicks ass in this adventure. He's 5th level by the time he reaches the Moathouse if he's put any effort at all into the Hommlet adventures ... and against that level of opposition, Call Lightning, Spike Growth and Summon Nature's Ally 2 are your best friends.
If you're into NPCs, take Ronald. He'll help morale- just talk to him for awhile- as well as most things besides sneaking.
I think best NPC is Melany. Even though she may seem useless first, at higher levels she can throw fire and lightning on your opponents. I noticed that produce flame spell works around corners so she can rain death from afar or just use wild shape in a bear and rampage in melee. As for Arcanists in TOEE there is another meaning of divide and conquer. I have a bard that is leader of the group, ranged fighter and has nice supply of spells. Cantrips: Daze and Ray of frost 1Lvl : Sleep and charm person 2Lvl : Sound burst and hold person 3Lvl : Deep slumber
To answer one of your questions (I notice nobody's actually done that), a smaller party will level up MUCH faster than a larger one ... you get the same TOTAL experience per encounter/storyline finished. Also, for your Wizard ... at low levels Magic Missile and other damage spells blow chunks ... except against undead. Actually, at HIGH levels damage spells are pretty much your worst option. Go for disabling and battlefield-control spells like Sleep, Charm Person and Glitterdust. You'll do much better with those. Let the Fighters and other meat-shields do the damage-dealing. BTW Rogues are much, much better two-weapon fighters than Fighters are. It's not that they're necessarily better at hitting that way, it's just that when they flank, sneak attacks mean they can do as much damage as Wizards with a Fireball spell. :evil:
Let me emphasize what grinner said, you really don't want to be wasting a spell to do like 3 damage to a target. Magic Missile only becomes useful when you are firing multiples, at a much higher level. And even then it's situational for when they are very low on HP, immune to weapons you are using, blah blah or you just don't have any other spells that will effect one big solo monster. Damage is damage, but d4+1 doesn't ever impact a battle. A bunch of monsters continually falling, knocked unconscious or blind (+2 to hit through invisible attack, 50% chance to dodge their attacks) is the way to go. For the earlier levels, you're better off using grease, web, glitter dust, perhaps enlarge person for your fighter? Sleep is also useful randomly, but glitter dust is the MVP of all disable spells for a long time. My 9th level wizard still casts it in the game.
Yup, that's it. A solo charcter will be easily at level 3-5 when he gets to the moathouse, and it will level up even more once there. Not to mention the Temple, where you will get to higher levels really fast. Interesting, i think quite the contrary. At low levels, as Shadowdeth says, the grease, web, glitterdust, etc, works best...but i didn't find the battlefield-control spells that useful...at higher levels, the monsters you'll be encountering have humongous saves, and most of them are immune (there are lots of bugs regarding that, like the suggestion spell which it's fubar) Damage spells are useful, cos it will put down creatures other way really hard to damage (the earth node, or the fire, the fungus etc). A succesfully saved damage spell will still do some damage, while a "controlling" spell will be harmless. Not that much. I usually do my rogues two wielding, but mainly cos it's a classic. A rogue not only has a worst AC than a fighter, a worst BA and probably less strength (sure you can finesse, but lighter weapons)...so, your rogue can use two shortswords with a small penalty (-2 at each hand, and extra -1 if using a buckler for -2 -3) and use sneak attack, but again, that's only useful against certain enemies. A fighter with focus in longswords can still use a buckler and have a moderate penalization (-3 -4) easily negligible by the BA, and the longsword specialization (i don't remember if improved specialization it's available) will make the same damage to all opponents, always. Give him a heavy armor and you don't have to be worried by being hit (and you'll have more than enough feats to make a nice two-weapon charcter combo). Overall, if you're going to do a rogue sneaking charcter, it's better to have him focused with only one hand, IMO, without buckler you'll be adding a bit more damage if you have some strength. Or multiclass with ranger and get the two weapons for free.
You should probably go with at least a group of 4 characters. I agree that a Rogue would make a good addition to your group. The roleplay skills a Rogue class has available will open up many opportunities for you throughout the game, and his ability to find traps and secret doors are very handy as well. Not to mention the ability to disarm the traps and open up locks. I've played ToEE several times now but still enjoy it. I usually try to cover the 4 core classes (Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, and Wizard) each time I play. Then if I want a 5th, I try one of the less mainstream classes like the Bard, Druid, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, or Sorcerer. With Co8's 5.0 Front End, you can modify the maximum party number, but I wouldn't go above 6 due to NPC's required for certain quests, and experience hits. You'll still reach 10th level with 6 characters, but it'll be a little slower. As to the discussion on a dual-wielding Rogue vs. Fighter...well, in my opinion, Fighters are better due to attack purposes. If you do make a dual-wield Rogue, I'd go with Weapon Finesse and use two light weapons of the same type so that you only take a -2/-2 penalty, and a Weapon Focus feat in that weapon type will help out your attack. If you use a larger weapon in your main hand, keep in mind that you'll have to take two Weapon Focus feats to get the same attack capability, which I don't think is worth it for an addition 2 points of possible damage, and your Finesse will not help you hit with your heavier weapon. But even with Finesse/Focus and a light weapon, you still have a Rogue's base attack, so a Fighter or Ranger dual-wielder is better in my opinion. I generally make my rogues wield a single light weapon that I can use Finesse with. That way my Rogue has a good chance to hit. The light Finesse capable weapon doing a d6 damage that hits more, is better than a larger weapon that does a little more random damage but hits less. Because when all is said and done, it's the Rogue's sneak attack that does the real damage, so who cares about the base damage, I want the better chance at hitting and getting my sneak attack. Also, intead of spending feats on Two-Weapon Fighting and Imp. Two-Weapon Fighting, you can go with Combat Expertise and Improved Feint. With a high bluff skill, you can feint your opponents as a move action, causing them to lose their Dex bonus to AC, making them easier to hit AND vulnerable to sneak attack, so you get your sneak attack without having to flank which is handy when flanking is risky or impossible. If you don't care for Rogues, a Bard is a good alternate. With no Sneak Attack, the bard isn't as useful in melee. I generally like to go with an Elven Bard for the higher Dex and access to the Longbow and make a ranged Bard. In this way, when not attacking with the bow, you can hang back and use your Bardic Music which is nice considering it buffs your entire group with just one standard action. And he can support your casters as an optional secondary healer to help the Cleric, or use enemy control spells like Charm Person, Sleeps, Glitterdust, etc. and free your Wizard/Sorcerer up to select more damage oriented spells. And the Bards high Charisma gives a little extra umph to roleplay skills like Gather Info., Diplomacy, etc, which opens up more possibilities/quests easier. You can always take a Knock spell for locks, and use your Fighter type to open chests with a Cleric standing safely back at ready with curative magic in case of traps.
