Party Creation question...

Hi everyone. I'm new to the board and ToEE.

I was just starting out and I was wondering if having a dedicated archer was a good idea. So far my party looks like this:

Fighter (2x bastard swords)
Paladin (defensive tank)
Cleric
Wizard
Ranger (dedicated archer)

The ranger is all into longbows and everything (diety favors it, weapon spec LB, etc.)

The problem is that so far (level 1 in the moathouse) he has been missing most of the time. This prompted me to ask whether he is going to be a valid, contributing member of my party down the road. Will he miss all the time? Will his damage be tiny compared to my other characters? Should I make him a fighter instead?

Thanks,
War77

Edit: Oh, and any other suggestions that anyone may have regarding the composition of my party are welcome as well.

 

An archer needs the Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot feats to be effective at low levels. Especially if there are melee fighters engaged with the targets.

 

Also, I'd trade the archer for a good thief anyday. I think you will need high "Disable Device" and "Open Locks" (as in max them out!) much more-especially in the lower levels of the game -- and a certain part of the temple...

My ranger in the game I'm running isn't that great either.

 

I like splitting up classes to make a good archer. Rogue & Ranger was good to me (a halfling), as was Ranger & Wizard (an elf); I also did Rogue & Wizard (another elf)...which worked out well, too. Get as much dex as possible along with those feats...along with magic stat boosters, bows, arrows, and bracers. My halfling was the most effective attacker vs. the Balor later on.

 

Well, unless I mistake the make-up of your party, you're awfully melee heavy. While I see nothing wrong with getting up close and personal with the monsters, I don't typically choose the fighter types. Fighters are awfully nice for the first two levels, since they get those free feats, but I tend to multiclass after that.

There are very few characters you absolutely need to be successful in ToEE, but a balanced party makeup is good. You need:

(1) a dedicated talker (preferable with high charisma) - Bards are especially effective here, since they get almost all the diplomatic skills as class skills. Rogues are also excellent, since they get all of them, but they may have better places to spend skill points. Even paladins and druids can suffice, if you don't mind spending some skill points cross-class. If you insist on skimping here, most of the town quests can be solved with either inimidate or bluff.

(2) a dedicated tank or two (high constitution helps) - Almost any class will suffice here. Fighter, cleric, paladin, barbarian, or druid are fine, as long as you can either evade damage (high AC) or absorb it (high hp). This guy should always be charging into melee so that monsters will target him, and not your weaker party members.

(3) a dedicated healer - This is almost always a cleric, since as long as they channel positive energy, they can default any memorized spell to cure wounds. Druids and bards are good supplemental healers, but a cleric is usually required.

(4) a dedicated rogue (with high dexterity) - This character needs to max out search, disable device, and open locks. 'Nuff said.

There are other characters that are nice to have, but not necessary. One or two wizards can make those large fights a whole bunch easier. A wizard or cleric who can craft wondrous items can permanently buff your party members for the cost of some gold and XP. A level 7 cleric with the good domain who can craft magic arms and armor can create holy weapons, making your fights ever so much quicker, since virtually everything in the temple is evil. And to get the most out of your gold, one character should have high appraise.

Also, don't neglect the NPCs available within the game. Spugnoir is a staple of my party. Elmo and Fruella are both capable tanks. Even Meleny is handy, if you can deal with her miserable strength.


I'll post my personal favorite party, just so you can get an idea what I'm talking about.

(1) LG Paladin3/Cleric7 of Hieronius (good, war) with great cleave and craft magic arms and armor. He uses longsword & shield.

(2) CG Cleric10 of Pelor (strength, good) with great cleave and weapon proficency bastard sword (and shield).

(3) NG Elf Rogue5/Ranger5 with weapon finesse and great cleave, dual wielding rapiers for extra sneak attack damage. Pertinent rogue skills are maxed, as is survival, to avoid annoying encounters on the world map.

(4) CG Helf-elf Bard10 with precise shot, maxed diplomacy skills, and maxed appraise. This is primarily a support character and a jack-of-all-trades. In addition to being the party face-man, she provides some healing, plenty of buffs, and a lucky shot once in a while. She's a half-elf for the bonuses to diplomacy skills, and CG just in case I want to pass Scather off my cleric for a while.

(5) N Elf Druid3/Wizard7 with precise shot and craft wondrous item. Honestly, a full wizard would work better, but I like the extra healing at low levels. She's an elf for the extra dex and for weapon proficiency longbow.

I also usually pick up Spugnoir and Meleny, and leave a space open for quest NPCs.

All but the wizards wear light armor - studded leather (or, now that they've been implemented in Co8 4.0, mithral chain shirts) - and have maxed tumble. All the spellcasters have maxed concentration, and the wizards have maxed spellcraft (for copying scrolls). By the end of the game, everyone has belts of giant strength +6, gloves of dexterity +6, and amulets of health +6. Everyone has +3 holy weapons (or Scather), and +3 armor (and +3 shields for those who use them).

Can you see where I've fit in all of the character traits I mentioned above? Note that I only posted the end-lines of the feat trees I use, but hopefully you can follow that. Everyone has thier niche, and they complement each other. Does the party work? Well, we're pretty deadly, and I don't typically have to resurrect anyone (unless a hill giant gets in a lucky critical for 64 points of damage on a level 4 paladin :dizzy: ). Are there other ways to do it? Absolutely! Choose your own path.

 

Here's my favorite team with the NPCs i grab for fun:
A Half-orc Barbarian (Greataxe and buckler and an armor that fits him well...i made one specific for the current barb i am using)
A Halfling Rogue (focuses on talking, opening locks, sneaking around, and disabling traps)
A Cleric (any race I guess, but usually human or dwarf)of a god with war domain and a good favored weapon (use the favored weapon and bright shiny armor and a big shield)
A human ranger for archery
the last spot is either a fighter, monk (useful for brawling), or paladin (actually hate these guys...c'mon who doesn't like drinking contests)
I then grab Meleny, Spugoir, and Pishella to get the complement of magic

 

I try different combinations, but my power party was:

Human Paladin, WF Greatsword, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave

Human Rogue 8/Fighter 2, high Intelligence, Dex and (if no Bard) Charisma, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Quick Draw (lets me pull a bow and plink people I won't be able to reach in the first round for a sneak attack)

Human Cleric of Heironious (Good and War domains), War gives him a free WF in longsword. Good gives him ability to make holy weapons. Combat Casting, Improved Turning, Craft Wonderous Item, Craft Arms and Armor.

Elven Sorcerer, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Empower Spell, Craft Arms and Armor (so my cleric doesn't have to always take the XP hit)

Half-Elven Bard with bow feats or Dwarven Fighter/Barbarian, depending on what I feel like.

Focused archers aren't bad, but without Precise Shot they're not going to hit much.

 

I like to use an archer styled ranger as a bodyguard for my mages.

my most recent party was (6-2 max PCs)...
fighter (greatsword)
barbarian (greatclub)
sorcerer (evoker/longbow{elf})
rogue (theif/shortbow)
ranger (longbow)
cleric (getting rid of undead and totally useless outside of that role)
bard (zaxis)

 

I have personally had my best run- of the two I went all the way through with-

1. 3rd Fighter/7th Paladin (do the drinking quest and get the bonus fighting feats before switching over) as Tank- Sword-n-Shield

2. 9th Barbarian/1st Fighter (fighter at an early level for the bonus fighting feat like weapon focus)- as Tank#2-Greatsword- love the Critical hits when he is enraged!

3. 10th Sorcerer- Firepower baby! Max Spell Focus on Evocation and Necromancy

4. 10th Druid- Hey the healing helps, and the massive amount of summoned, decent creatures to hold back the baddies is awesome!

5. 3rd Rogue/7th Wizard- for traps and added firepower and crafting wondrous items.

6. 10th Cleric-(Yes I took advantage of the extra PC ability in the newest Mod)- Mini-tank-main healer and weapon crafter- Domain earth(might rethink that one- but Stoneskin at later levels is nice) and Good(cant beat Holy Smite and it is great in crafting). -If only running 5 PCs-drop the barbarian for this guy.


7. A NPC fighter- Fruella is the obvious choice as her stats are great (her Charisma should be MUCH lower than she is given though!)- for her quest exp- but Elmo (almost as annoying in his "drukedness") is actually a slightly better fighter- as my 3rd Tank

Last slot open for quest NPCs.

That's my two coppers worth!

 

Archers are the most powerful of characters...

However, do NOT mistake the ranger for an archer.
A fighter makes a much better archer. A rogue is the best, because it gets its dex bonus to its to hit, and it will also critically hit with the bow. Using things such as crippling strike with a bow is much fun...

Equip said archer with an enchanted mighty (+3) composite longbow, give said archer feats like weapon specialization in bows... Give him greater bracers of archery, gloves of dex+6, belt of str+6 (to provide for the max mighty bonus of +3 damage), etc... and you got yourself a killer.

My godly rogue archer annihilated the gods at the end of the module with little help from its lesser companions.


Also, a human is better then an elf... you can tweak your stats anyways, and that extra feat can give you whatever bonus you might need in terms of archery skill.

 

Hey, Heavydan. Just wanted to make sure you're aware that this isn't such a hot setup. You take a -1 to hit if you have a buckler on when attacking with a two-hander, PLUS you lose the AC bonus from the buckler if you attack in that round. So, as long as you're attacking, you're taking -1 to hit for nothing. Check it out the next time you get attacked. Look up your AC in the roll window. There's a feat in one of the 3.5 supplemental books that lets you get the AC anyway, but it's not included in ToEE.

 

i didn't know about the no AC when attacking...hmmm well bucklers are no longer on my characters...still keeping the greataxe...i mean what else would a barbarian..or elmo for that matter...use other than a huge axe

 

Of course, any magic bonuses from the buckler still apply. +3 AC and a -1 to hit seems like a fair tradeoff to me.

 

Hmm, I agree with both Heavydan and C-Blue-- no bucklers- until I can get a magic one!