Paladins

well if that were to happen in my campagin the answer would be yes. paladins are a hard class to play because of the severe restrictions on what you can do and who you can asosiate with. which is why i never bring one along in ToEE or any other CRPG.

 

Um, yeah, of course...?

 

I'd say yes Ted. That's a situation where a Paladin is deliberately accepting the blessing of an evil god. If it's a neutral god or another 'good' god, I think the issue becomes murkier

 

My first instinct would be to say yes, but I think it would depend on the circumstances. Would a Paladin refuse healing from an evil priest? What if the paladin was gravely wounded and he was the only one standing between a monster and group of innocents? (The priest is healing the paladin because the monster will kill him as well, and the priest doesn't want to die.)

So I think there might be a circumstance in which accepting an evil priest's blessing would be acceptable, but it would be incredibly rare.

 

I don't believe that there are any mitigating circumstances when it comes to Paladins. If they break the code that is in effect their being they fall.

He may accept this healing in this case. However he knows full what the consequences of this action will be. Honor as well as the rules would dictate that he fall. A true Paladin would not whine falter or even miss a step. They would know what needed to be done. Do it, and begin atonement as soon as the deed was done. Circumstances do not make it possible to shirk their duty. We are all responsible for our actions. Paladins are acutely aware of this or should be. In the modern world we look for loopholes and become shirkers and slackers. A slacker Paladin is a contraction of terms IMHO. If he breaks the rules once to save some innocents, what is next? This path should not be traveled.

 

IMO - In general, yes, the paladin should fall. In certain circumstances, it may depend on the deity of the paladin in question to ascertain situation based specifics of whether the paladin will fall, or not. As far as the ToEE computer game is concerned, the general rule should apply and the paladin should fall.

[EDIT] Typically, if you have to ask yourself, "Will this cause the Paladin to fall?", most likely the Paladin will fall most of the time if not all of the time. The paladin is historically and should remain a tough class to roleplay. It's what being a paladin is all about.

 

I disagree since the divine powers are not granted by a single diety, the diety may be able to offer an light atonement, based on circumstances, but fall the paladin must.

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In all fairness, I did say "It may depend.." and did not say must. Also, I said, "most likely the Paladin will fall most of the time if not all of the time".

[EDIT] We agree on this topic, Rufnredde.

 

So instead of accepting the healing so he can defeat the monster he gets killed by it and all the innocents die? I don't see how this helps the cause of good.

Yes, the paladin would probably want to atone for allowing himself to be "touched by evil" but I can't see his deity yanking his powers while he's actively trying to defend the innocent.

 

I think the deity would at least question the paladin's direction strongly, if nothing else than to put pressure on the paladin to help them stay pure in a difficult time.

It's not so far, in my mind, from a Jedi (lord help me, but my frame of reference for such black & white knighthood due to obsessive childhood viewing) using the 'dark side' for a good reason. They'd run the risk of being tainted afterwards, and the jedi council would want to sort of 'quarantine' them until they were sure the knight in question had not begun a path, for whatever reason, they could not condone.

I know that's not quite d & d, but it kind of puts it visible, and pertinent, to me, for what it's worth.

That said, I think the appropriate paladin-ish decision would be to take the evil priest's healing, damn the personal consequences, and accept whatever the deity decided afterward with a pure heart. In the long run, I think that scenario would play out as Kalshane describes.

 

Randomise it. 80% of the time the Paladin's deity gets grumpy and sends him off to atone. 20% of the time the deity figures the Paladin is serving a greater good and doesn't do squat.

:coffee:

 

I did not say he would not do it. I said he should fall for ir regardless of the outcome. The end does not justify the means. If the means are Evil then the price must be paid. IMO

I still do not see the Diety as granting his powers or having any control of them whatsoever. Other than being able to grant atonement. That's why I posted what was in the players handbook.

I will give an example of living by a code that has nothing to do with Paladins but another highly fictionalized character. The Samurai. He lives by a code the Bushido. He has sworn an oath to follow the orders of his Lord. His Lord orders him to do something, against the code, that causes him to lose his honor. Either way he is screwed. If he doesn't do his masters bidding, his honor is compromised. If he does it is also compromised. He must choose within his own soul which is the lesser of two evils. Act on that. In the end however Honor dictates that he must commit ritual suicide either way.

Not fair perhaps, strange to a modern Western mindset. Definately. But a fact of life for this warrior never the less.

I have said my piece, interpret the rules as you will. Just don't misquote me. I am through posting in this thread, only for the reason that I have already stated by opinion I not apt to change it and any further posting by me would just confuse the issue IMO.

 

Death before dishonor...the paladin would not accept the blessing, and would die trying to defeat the evil if need be. If the innocents died as well, then it was "meant to be". Trial by combat should be the example here, not compromise.

 

All I have to say on this subject is that I agree with rufnredde completely.