Paladin's Cove beta release, and feedback

yes and my Emerald key did NOT come from a dragon - so my "Homage to Yorgul, Grundel and Rhindel" theory didnt hold up.

 

my understanding is the denizens (I wont call them monsters, because who are we to judge? are we not monsters to them?) of the entire level spawn when the party enters that level for the first time. So to get a new laydown, you would have to go to the save before you entered that level for the first time - which you did. That also goes for the loot, so makes sense we are getting different loots and the keys are coming from differing sources.

 

Has anyone else noticed that Armor Oil isn't working? Lockslip grease appears on the radial dial, but armor oil doesn't. I can't use the item in inventory. Am I doing something wrong, or is it broken? I'm sure it worked in Co8, and I suppose no problem in Temple+ either. Assuming it is broken in this module, does anyone know how to get it to appear in the radial menu?

I'm also hoping this fix will help me to get Ray of Clumsiness to appear in the radial menu as well.

 

Further update: I played through one of my 'alternative timelines' after reloading a save from before my first use of the metal keys, and managed to grind my way through to finding all three gemstone keys. Not without its frustrations (for reasons that your posts indicate you have also experienced - critters spamming save-or-suck spells multiple times a round; countermeasures to this triggering CTDs when the fight is almost won). Can post my winning tactics if you are interested. Descended to a limited version of level 2, and had a similar experience when investigating the various altars as happened with the Earth Altar on level one. Dealt with these threats, destroyed the gems at their respective altars, and thereby initiated a satisfying self-destruct sequence. Dealt with the expected disappointment and tantrum of the priest of Cuthbert-is-actually-Hextor outside. All in all, a very neat and thematically congruent re-use of some of the existing maps. Tough battles, which I think is fine for a cRPG, where you generally respond to a character being unceremoniously slaughtered after being rendered helpless by re-loading, rather than rolling up a new PC as you would in PnP. Most of the frustration was due to limitations of the non-Temple+ TOEE engine: certain spells (Haste) not being properly available; other spells triggering CTDs; invisible wererats getting infinite AoOs until they kill you, and so on. 5stars, would play again.
One thing that did seem a bit off-key, and may not be working as intended:

Spoiler

at the start of the 'return to the TOEE' quest, the random encounter party from the original game is present and gives some additional exposition, including some things that corroborate the belief that the Cuthbert priest proposing to restart the temple is a wrong'un. I really like this: the encounter with them in the original fame is very limited, unless you fight them, which I never want to do, and it's a neat call-back. Good to learn that they must have survived their temple with the idol with the rubies the size of eggs. Anyhow, at some point (perhaps when you have the three metal keys and are about to descend into the temple proper) they wish you luck, give everyone a potion of Heal (very useful) and move out. After I'd dealt with the Temple Restorationists, it turned out that they were back at their campfire. I assumed that they would be pleased to see me, offer congratulations etc, and we'd part again on good terms. In fact, they attacked me on sight, and I was obliged to render them all unconscious with non-lethal damage. I assume that either the re-spawn was unintentional, or they have somehow been allocated the wrong faction when they do reappear. It would be really neat if once this quest is resolved in this way, one could have a comradely, mutually-respectful conversation with these guys before parting ways again.

Anyhoo, having completed all the available work at this location, said goodbye to the gypsies, and prepared to return to Pal Cove, it turns out that I can't get beyond a blank screen and some 'hold music' after asking Karma to send me back. It does therefore seem I have come to the end of the current version (ISTR a comment by Marc that it's not yet complete, and perhaps that of 4 planned chapters, most but not all of the first 3 are available). But I also think I saw someone say that the "Who's your daddy?" quest from Ch1 isn't resolved until Ch 4, in a way that implied that they had achieved a solution. My wizard has teleport, so I could try returning home that way, but I have feeling that the world map isn't available from this location, which in TOEE means that you can't teleport either. Will try when I get the chance. If anyone knows if there is anything further at this stage of the mod, I'd love to know. If not, it's a pretty good place to have an extended Long Rest for now.

 

It is possible Illuvitar85 completed whatever is available, but I dont think there is any of Ch4 in the current beta. I've been hacking and slashing my way through level 1 (one Battle of Stalingrad at a time) and have 2 gem keys. I'll soldier on cleansing the Temple and look forward to sending the dissimulating priest to meet Hextor.

This really is an amazing piece of work by Marc. Clever, engaging, entertaining, and designed to be enjoyed multiple times. It will be an even greater module if we can get Temple+ to work with it. Chef's kiss.

I hope Marc is able to return and complete his opus, and I hope our playtesting contributes to the final product. If I get a chance, I will ask Meloch to leave a lamp burning at Morningstar's on my way out.

 

Further further update: While I correctly remembered that I couldn't access the world map from outside the Temple, my Wizard is able to teleport me back, so I'm back in the game and thrust into the role Kingmaker!
Back in the game!

It may amuse you Kriegdoom to hear that my first road trip out, I was ambushed by a mighty force of 7 lizard folk. Despite reasonably favorable initiative rolls on their part (more than half placed before my Dex 27 rogue in the running order), none of them so much as took an action, with total expenditure of resources on the part of my heroes of 2 crossbow bolts and 1 arrow. So there is respite from the Eastern Front around the corner...

 

I wish we get a reply soon, I am itching to replay this again.

 

The problem is that the one found during adventuring needed to be identified first even though it already shows as "Armor Oil" before identification. Unfortunately, this does not help with my wish to restore Ray of Clumsiness.

 

There is something wrong with scribing Haste scrolls - they cost money but they don't appear. So, I consoled Create 9219, and one appeared. Repeat and another appeared, but not stacked. So I tried stacking them, and then they disappeared. When I look on the radial dial, Haste appears as a scroll choice. Bizarre! I did not see this problem with other scrolls

 

Have not had that problem with Haste. I have several Haste scrolls in inventory. However, I HAVE seen that issue with Restoration scrolls. I scribed several, they did not appear in inventory, but they do appear in the radial menu and they do work.

 

Allow me to share an interesting experience about Pilzner's nemesis. The party discovered who this dude was when they were level 3 and found his night time location at level 5 when Pilzner was no longer with the party. They brought him to his night time spot and he confirmed it - but not a good place to fight. They didn't realize his day job until level 7. Then a plan was made with their genius wizard.

This is the gaming and meta-gaming part. How much should a genius character know when the player is not a genius? How is the party supposed to know about how tough a big baddie will be? PalCo is quite different from ToEE in this way. Lucern tried Detect Evil - Nothing! We were trying to find out how many we would have to fight. So, the party attacked at night to face his three minions - plus the spiritual surprise - and they were surprisingly quite tough!! It would have helped if the party and player saw a bunch of magic items, but I think only one was armed that way. So, after dispatching them, the party went to rest until morning with buff spells prepared for all of the remaining individuals there.

We (including me the player) knew nothing about the "nemesis'" boss. A buffed 24 INT Wiz (but 6 WIS) did not think about how much this baddie could F*ck us up. No Death Ward - and PCs started dropping. RESTART "But it was all a dream" or perhaps what serious planning a highly intelligent character would do (if wise). We know she is a wizard type from the buffs she always casts. We aren't sure if he's a fighter or rogue type. So, we enter after hasted then go for the Hail Mary Phantasmal Killer on the big boss. Apparently, she had a Will, Fort, and Reroll triple failure (or does Reroll mean a 2nd saving throw?). She died, but she is not mentioned in the logbook as a defeated character - did we get xp?. Then I checked protos and .py

I cannot see how she would legitimately have an actual reroll unless Marc is trying to create a Pathfinder Diviner specialist. The foe of Pilzner should have had his class levels re-distributed to give him Improved Uncanny Dodge so that the only way to sneak attack him would have required an 8th level Rogue or Improved Invisibility. He should have also been doing Greater Two Weapon Fighting, which would have made him more formidable even without flanking at his "work location". He should have raged before dying. On protos, things like evasion and faster movement are listed but is that necessary since it is part of the class skills. I thought it was unnecessary based on ToEE Serena (if I recall correctly). They both should have had more magic stuff to use against the party. The CR implicitly includes the assets they should have (but not necessarily on them or even portable).

[EDIT] The party sold an item to the vendor as it was daytime (reminds me of Kill Bill 2 where Uma asks for a glass of water after a very traumatic experience), left, but forgot to pickup the thrown darts, came back and immediately met Artimis. Wow! That was an amazing reaction time by her bosses. So, obviously, there should be a timer for how soon she should appear at this location after the baddies die.

From Take 1, I saw that she used a 7th level spell, which she shouldn't have had based on her protos. This undervalues the xp received. This also reminds me of Shardana having access to a level 5 killer spell when she is only Clr 6. If she is using a scroll then the DC should be a lot easier; otherwise, the DM is cheating. I can only imagine how hard it must be to create effective adversaries. Zolroth should have wiped the floor with my party at level 4 when they first met him. They had no idea how powerful he was. Dude in black with a scythe - a farmer or cleric of Nerull. Based on the encounter with Shardana's Spiritual Weapon, it seemed pretty clear that the party is fighting against followers of Nerull. They just thought he was a punk so they got around him and disrupted his spells with a bit of luck.

Based on my experiences, I am wondering that by killing 3 out of 4 of the characters who will appear in later chapters that I have messed up the storyline with my early (but reasonable) attack. I imagine that Marc's module will still randomly put together challenging encounters. Of course I am impressed with his oeuvre, but the randomness of the Hidden Stronghold makes me wonder how all these critters got along. Vermin next to Trolls, Ghasts in the only hallway access to a bunch of Gnolls. I am hoping something will be revealed to make sense of it all, but I think I will follow Basil's advice (in Austin Powers) to just "sit back and enjoy it".

 

I take it from the fact that you are scribing scrolls of haste that this spell is working for you. I don't think I've ever cast it successfully, I get a message saying that the spell is already in effect, or some-such. Did you need to do anything to make the spell function, or have I just got a different set of glitches?
Regarding Pilzner, is he the rogue that you are encouraged to recruit in chapter 2? Or the slightly ineffective ranger available at the start? I had the ranger along briefly, but swapped him for the bard whose mum wanted her scared off being an adventurer, and I already had/have a very effective rogue. Looks like I may have missed a sub-plot.
As to my recent exploits, soon after returning from the Temple, I had the option to move on to Chapter 4, only to be greeted with a message that there is no Chapter 4 yet, but there is a bit of a work-in-progress to finish up with. This takes the form of the job for the priest of Rao that was mentioned earlier, and is a sizeable mission that returns to sites previously visited. One glitch that occurred during this was that when I returned to either the Cove or the Temm estate, coming into the vicinity of traders initiated combat and caused my NPC allies to turn on me. Automatic on landing in the marketplace, triggered by entering the traders' building on the docks or by going up to the first floor at Temm's old place. Previously (the scorpions in the package affair in Ch1) I've got round this by dismissing my NPCs first, so that's an option. I can still trade at the Crossroads, which is where I did my identifying and offloading unnecessary gear. Other than reporting back to the church of Rao that their mission is complete, I'm not sure there is much left at present.
While I would love to see the final version, with a completed Chapter 4 and Temple+ compatibility, it's still pretty impressive as it is. Even Ch 4 as it is is 'a bit short' rather than non-existent.
Thanks Marc!

 

Haste worked for me for a while, but stopped working at some point either from radial or from scrolls.

 

My understanding is Marc created the fights assuming most players will: 1) max out hp and stats for their Barbarian/Sorcerer/Warmage Teilfling; and/or 2) fully heal and rememorize after every sizable encounter, and/or 3) play a fight multiple times to get the right strategy. Thats not how I play, so its frustrating. My 1e brain wants to keep pushing my non-multiclass no reroll PCs until the entire level is clear, and starting fights with low hp and limited spells is part if the game. But it IS how many players play, so it makes sense he is trying to keep it challenging and relevant.
Also, I believe Marc play-tested with a small group of fighter types, resulting in a core of durable, high-hp PCs farming maximum xp which gives a different result than a larger party of squishy magic users and/or rogues, especially when the best spells (haste, charm person, stinking cloud) have issues or have been purposely nerfed. Which is fine, that is why we are playtesting for him. If I make a second run at this, I will def start with no more than 4 PCs - proly 2 Paladins, a Cleric and a Warmage. I'll pick up a thief and another spellcaster at the inn.

Overall this is a really enjoyable effort by Marc, very clever and immersive. He's inspired me to try my hand at creating something, although you will see in another string I'm already hitting roadblocks. I cant imagine how much time and effort Marc put into this so far.