Orion's ToEE complete fixes - beta (part A)

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by 0rion79, Sep 30, 2005.

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  1. 0rion79

    0rion79 Established Member

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    This module is based on Circle of 8 producs. Without them, this module could not exist. I have to thanks the ones that made Co8 3.0.4, Moebius2778 for temple.dll, Livonya, Shiningted, Cujo and Allyx for their mods. This mod is actually 100% compatibile with Ted's 1.2.0 module (latest Co8 relase).
    This module is 100% at Co8 disposal and may be modified at will as long as changes have a reason to be and my name is always reported as first creator of this mod. The reason of changes is at discreption of Co8 members.

    How to install: simply copy *the files only* inside of each folder into the folder of the same name already inside Temple of Elemental Evil main directory. Do not replace folders but overwrite the files when asked. Note that some of the folders inside the maps directory do not exsist in the original folder, so they must be copied into the C:\Programs\Atari\Temple of Elemental Evil\modules\ToEE\maps folder.

    This mod changes the following things

    General changes:
    -all skill points for all creatures have been re-calculated
    -all saving throws for all creatures have been re-calculated. This was necessary because the programmers took total values, including feats and stats bonuses, directly from 3.5 monster manual and wrote down them in the protos, while the game re-adds bonuses from feats and stats to savin throws values for the second time. This happened in positive or in negative. For example, giants had reflex throws lower of what they should, since they applied their -1 from DEXterity twice. That's why it was so hard to charm monsters or sometimes too easy to strike them.
    -removed all extra Hit Dices from monsters that are instead supposed to level up with character classes only, like ogres and bugbears. Extra HD have been converted in character classes.
    -re-addedd the tons of missing feats from monsters and creatures and re-distributed feats to NPCs with character classes as long as it was possible, following role-playing. This includes weapon finesse and weapon focus for monsters and animals, where needed.
    -removed redundant spellcaster levels from monsters with spell-like abilities but that can't level up as characters. They were not necessary since, after testing, the tag special_domain X uses monsters HD as spellcaster levels.
    -monsters that could result too weak without class levels have been increased with extra Hit Dices, following instructions from the monster manual. If they increased their size, they gained bonuses and maluses consequently.
    -fixed all monsters and NPCs stats (STR, DEX... natural armor and CR) according to temple of elemental evil (AD&D) adventure book and monster manual. Monsters with character classes now have the elite rolls (15,14,13,12,10,8) plus racial modifier (and some changes in the case of "leader" attribute: a small boost to charisma only to role-playing reasons), and all NPCs with character classes have the +1 bonus for every 4 class levels.
    -added missing skill points and feats for human NPCs.

    Specific changes
    -fixed a bug with Scather and Fragrach that made them to act like non-magical items,
    -fixed Excalibur that now works like a regular holy Avenger, as it should be and as it was at the very beginning of the game.
    -fixed light maces of striking that now are light maces and not heavy maces (important for weapon finesse).
    -added my set of silver weapons and special armors to the blacksmith in Homelet.
    -fixed the small bug with Livonya's woodcutter shop that didn't allow to scroll the list.
    -fixed a problem with masterwork bucklers and padded armors that added an unproper bonus or malus to attack rolls with weapon finesse or skill points.
    -added some small, minor magic abilities to Ooghrist's emeral belt (may be reverted easily), Gnome Ring and Unicorn ring, so that now they are not completely useless.
    - restored all attributes to fiendish and celestial creatues and Archon Lantern, that now casts circle of protection from evil and beams searing light against monsters to simulate its natural spell-like abilities.
    -fixed attacks for all monsters. Elementals now do have both attacks at the same attack bonus, many monsters now use the right dice for damage and do not apply full strength bonus to secondary attacks anymore.
    - some of the monsters that have had a severe checkup are will o'the wisp, Galeb Dhur, eye of the deep (now beholder kind), Hydra (now cryo-Hydra as suggested from the paint, has fast healing 10 and regeneration 5/fire), werewolves, jackalwere (they are not licantropes but shapeshifting aberrations), Glabrezu (should not use his stench that paralized himslef too), leucrotta, Lyv's skeleton priest that now has been changed, for role-playing resons oly, to a temple veganceful ghos because skeletons don't have any intelligence and loose all characteristics from their previous lives. Other monsters have been fixed as well.

    About recruitable NPCs,
    -disabled looting for NPCs that joined the party to escape from the temple, reduced looting to 1/5 of money only (to avoid troubles with items) for all the ones that looted.
    -prince Thrommel is now a paladin, with equipment worthy of him.
    -Elmo is now a ranger that fight with axes. (he gains a special small battleaxe too 4704, while his chainmail and big shield are now a chainshirt and buckler with same enchantment)
    -Otis is a ranger that uses the ranger archery bonus feats and his chainmail now is changed into a chainshirt (3.5 rangers do not have proficiency with medium-size armors)
    -all other NPCs have stats and feats like weapon focus and improved critical that exactly mirror their original ToEE description.
    -Darley is updated to Alu-Demon of 3.0. Since it was unfair to make her a level 10 sorceress (especially with the lever uncapper) and since Alu Demon has the fighter as favored class, now darley is an effective 9th level sorceress with spells oriented to closed-combat fights and her extra alu-demon spell-like abilities, plus 1 fighter level for weapon proficiencies. Note that sorcerer class should stack with alu-demon natural spellcasting abilities.
    -Grank, that was a cleric of III level, had been changed to cleric III, black guard 7, to make him more challengening or a more useable choiche. It is a test that may be easily reverted from the protos deleting the paladin levels (equal to black guard), sneak attack and divine grace. If doing so, Grank's skills must be at 7 and he has 3 feats total.
    -Taki is again a fighter that uses brute strength

    Since there was no track of those NPCs in the original ToEE handbook, they have been re-balanced accordingly to my will.
    -Zaxis has a better selection of spells and feats accordingly with his level, including more balanced stats, more suitable for a bard of 5th level (no big changes)
    -Pintark and Tuelk now are a 4th level melee barbarian and an fighter/archer for compound longbows. A bit more useful than before.
    - Bertram has some skills point in healing (dentist) and is a 2-weapon figting fighter (you know, cutlass and dagger as a pirate.... oh, he IS a pirate!) even if, IMHO, the ranger class does fits Bertram better than the fighter one. Rangers are more stealthy, usually chaotic, are hunters that may hunt humans and other humanoids and do not wear medium or heavy armors that may be deadly if forced to jump in the river or in sea because the ship is shrinking. More rangers have heal as skill class and are more suited for a gentle spirit like bertram. In 3.5 the ranger *may be* a hero like paladin but it is allowed to have evil rangers as well, without any "fallen" status.
    Ed, ted and Ed are now respectively a ranged 4th level fighter specialized with crossbow (STR 11, Dex 18), a fac-totum with all scores at 15 and a 4th level fighter specialized into melee weapons.
    - Inverted the feats between Rianna and Serena, including different selection of skill points. Since Rianna is a wore and is supposed to be able to use some sado-maso tools, she is proficient with the spiked chain, the closed weapon to the whip, and has feats to move stealthy. Serena is instead a thief, catched by Mona, so now she has the skills to be a thief (stealing, unlocking, pick-pocketing) and has the feats to be an archer, or whatever.
    - restored the appropriate level for some NPCs, since: evil PCs may leave and attack the party when injuried; Teruko and Kobbort join only a 4 members party, Furnok is an expert gambler and, being a rogue, does not provide alone such a big difference in melee fights. More, he cant' be used a as a diplomat, thus is useless in homelet in the very first quests and may be hired just before leaving for the temple.
    -Rufus sucks, this is not a change.

    Merchants:
    -the following traders have been modified:
    .. Brother-smith: masterwork gears added to standard trading window, so that they may be used at the beginning of the game and not only to craft magic weapons and armors. The giant's head quest moved for more rare items
    .. Burne's inventory has been enriched and moved to Pishella due to the impossibility of modifying his mob file
    .. Otis's inventory has been changed completely, allowing only ammos, masterwork gear and +1 magic gear. The reasons behind this are that he is supposed to have greater blacksmith skills than Homelet blacksmith and to make him more useful to the player. From a role-playing viewpoint, the selling of magic items *spoiler* is easily explained with the fact that Otis co-operates with canones Y'dey, the Herbmonger, that is a cleric and may enchant weapons and armors for him and, since he is under cover, he has the duty to sell stolen magic goods to keep his cover on. Note that in the world of Faerun, +1 items are not powerful enough to create any suspect. Note that, being a ranger, Otis may enchant weapons by his own.
    .. Herbonger shop has been enriched with more potions and other useful items.
    -Jaroo now has a student that will sell druidic items as reward for a quest. This merchant will not respawn items.
    Note: all new items are to offer more variety and to give equal opportunities to all classes and allow a player to play without the crafting-item feats. Note that all the items that may be acquired now are less powerful than the ones that a player may craft with the crafting-items feats and noone of them is power-playing oriented.

    - fixed some dialogue in the herbmonger's dialogue about the celtic rune
    - added some dialogue line to the herbmonger so that she gives a swamp lotus for the players that gets bored of patroling up and down the moathouse, looking for a swamp area.

    This mod must be used with the NPC-level-up-as-PC patch since I have no idea about what it may happen using the tab for leveling up in the game. This mod also requires Drifter's Constitution fix that fixes ToEE dll.file so that monsters apply the rght constitution bonus to their HD instead than +3 to HP for every +1 from Constitution.
    For any comment, suggestion or bug notification, mail me at orpheananger@hotmail.com
    Please, forgive me for any grammal error that I did while modifying dialogues, since english is not my mother-language, and enjoy my module.

    Warning: since the protos tab is too big to be posted here, downlad the whole file here at http://www.savefile.com/files/6001391 by courtesy of shiningted. The next thread includes only updated maps for traders.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 4, 2005
  2. 0rion79

    0rion79 Established Member

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    Re: Orion's ToEE complete fixes

    This is the second part of my mod: it contains changes to the main trades in the game: here are the changes.

    .. Brother-smith: masterwork gears added to standard trading window, so that they may be used at the beginning of the game and not only to craft magic weapons and armors. The giant's head quest has been adapted for more rare items
    .. Burne's inventory has been enriched and moved to Pishella due to the impossibility of modifying his mob file
    .. Otis's inventory has been changed completely, allowing only ammos, masterwork gear and +1 magic gear.
    .. Herbonger shop has been enriched with more potions and other useful items.
    ..Jaroo now has a student that will sell druidic items as reward for a quest (I was unable to open his mob file). This merchant will not respawn items.

    Note: all new items are to offer more variety and exist to give equal opportunities to all classes and allow a player to play without the crafting-item feats. Note that all the items that may be acquired now are less powerful than the ones that a player may craft with the crafting-items feats and noone of them is power-playing oriented.
    Note: even if this mod is a player's free choiche, those renewed merchants are even more optionals even if really reccomanded.

    - fixed some dialogue in the herbmonger's dialogue about the celtic rune
    - added some dialogue line to the herbmonger so that she gives a swamp lotus for the players that gets bored of patroling up and down the moathouse, looking for a swamp area.

    Now some considerations about the blacksmith, to explain my reasons.
    I know that this one is an unpoular change, since many persons here are reluctant to accept changes that modfy somehow what has been already modified, but still here are the reasons.
    Masterwork items are items that are of a superior quality and, since brother smith is a smith and a trader, he has all the reasons to sell them from the beginning of the game to every player that may afford them. This is in line with what suggested from Dungeon Master's handbook. The only reason for moving the giant's head quest from the masterwork items to the "rare-materials" items is that, when the party was able to kill the then it was already equiped with an amazing number of magic items so that the masterwork ones were good only for crafting. Now they may be used both at the begining of the game as boost between normal and magic weapons and, later in the game, for crafting. Now the process is even more faster, since there is not the need to jump from a dialogue line to another but everyting may be acquired directly from the main screen. I know that there are some that want the giant's head mission for the masterwork items, but I don't agree because it is like a cheff that sells only a simple pizza with cheese to customers and refuses to sell the one with sausage and onion because, for him, the customers are not worhy of his talent. Foolish.
    About Otis, now he is a bit more useful, since he sells a better selecion of armors, weapons and shields that are already enchanted. A +1 bonus is nothing so outstanding to make the pirates to suspect of him even because a smith that may craft magic items is more accepted from pirates because he is useful to them, may make a perfect cover for him since he may tell them that his ability to craft magic armors and weapons is the reasons for which he had to leave the civilzed world and hide in Nulb and, at last, he may always keep his best pieces hided if he doesn't mind to sell them to a pirate.
    About the other changes, I did my best to add variety without giving too powerful items to the party, that still has to pay a lot of moneys to buy items: they are not for free! And some of them are available only once. Jaroo's apprentice and Pishella sells unique items that are made to help a bit monks and to give more freedom to the player since, in order to have some kind of items, like the amulet of natural armor, the only choiche was to take the feat and craft the item. Now the player may choose between having less powerful versions of the item at a higher price or take the feat and craft them by himself, loosing a bunch of XPs.
    One last consideration comes with the quest to find the Lotus petals for Amii. Many players didn't jump into a swamp area while traveling. More, moving up and down from Homelet to Nulb or Moathouse is something boring and frustrating so I added some easy dialogue lies to the Herbonger that will provide the swamp to the players that were unable to find it.
    I'm prefectly aware about the fact that those changes alter somebody's else work but they are even more optional than the rest of my mod so no need to argue about the hetic behind the changes. They are here as an alternative and each of them may be used as a separated mod.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 4, 2005
  3. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Ooghrist's emerald belt protects the wearer from acid, the gnome ring allows you to recruit Wonnillon, and the Unicorn ring is worth a lot of money - I wouldn't call them "completely useless".
     
  4. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Well, thats a thoughtful bunch of changes.

    So what did you do with the Glabezrou to fix his stench?
     
  5. 0rion79

    0rion79 Established Member

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    Allyx, those items are useless when equiped. At least a player has a good reason to equip them instead than throwing the gnome ring away after finding wonnilon or than selling the unicorn ring. Then note that the party probably doesn't need moneys when that ring is found and, anyway, I didn't add any outstanding effect but only some nice side effect and, at the same time, I made every choiche following a precise role-playing script. I never added bonuses "just because".
    About the belt, I always thought that it wasn't all that deal, since there are too few acid sources, so I added some other minor effect.
    And anyway, regardless of the fixes, this is MY mod so please try it and write your comments only after experimenting the new game rebalancement, as you all did with Livonya's. Since I'm modding, there will always be some choiche that somebody may not like, but I trust my skills and experience of years as dungeon-master and I kindly ask you to trust me as well.

    About the stench, I only suppressed the script untill a better solution is found. I guess that it is better a monster that involves the party in a real fight than one that stenches everybody including himself and makes the whole fight a tedious waiting.

    PS: since, editing the dialogues files, I did for sure some grammal error, please help me to fix them. Moosehead, are u still the volunteer?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2005
  6. krunch

    krunch moving on in life

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    Send it to me please. I'll take a look at. (sweats profusely in a total nervous state and trembles in fear)
     
  7. krunch

    krunch moving on in life

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    Here are my questions and thoughts that other people may also have for your changes.

    General changes:
    -fixed all monsters and NPCs stats (STR, DEX... natural armor and CR) according to temple of elemental evil (AD&D) adventure book and monster manual. Monsters with character classes now have the elite rolls (15,14,13,12,10,8) plus racial modifier (and some changes in the case of "leader" attribute: a small boost to charisma only to role-playing reasons), and all NPCs with character classes have the +1 bonus for every 4 class levels.
    Question: Why do all monsters and npcs with stats get elite rolls? Is this just something you modified to add more challenge to the game? [Just curious as to why, what is your reasoning?]

    Specific changes
    -fixed a bug with Scather and Fragrach that made them to act like non-magical items
    Question: Do you mean the Area of Opportunity component toward getting extra hits using these two weapons that causes a CTD when they are armed and used in combat in the Elemental Node of Fire?

    -fixed Excalibur that now works like a regular holy Avenger, as it should be and as it was at the very beginning of the game.
    Questions: I do not believe it was broken. It was made to be a superior magic weapon according to its stature in the history of fantasy. Why change it? Does it have to be changed?

    -added some small, minor magic abilities to Ooghrist's emeral belt (may be reverted easily), Gnome Ring and Unicorn ring, so that now they are not completely useless.
    Question: Does Ooghrist's emeral belt still have its acid protection?

    - some of the monsters that have had a severe checkup are will o'the wisp, Galeb Dhur, eye of the deep (now beholder kind), Hydra (now cryo-Hydra as suggested from the paint, has fast healing 10 and regeneration 5/fire),
    Questions: Isn't the regeneration you've giving to Hydra extreme? Why not something more like 5 and 2, instead of 10 and 5? What happens when you encounter a hydra in a random encounter now that these can be encountered in regular random encounters while traveling?

    Glabrezu (should not use his stench that paralized himslef too)
    Question Did you mean Herzou, here?

    Lyv's skeleton priest that now has been changed, for role-playing resons oly, to a temple veganceful ghos because skeletons don't have any intelligence and loose all characteristics from their previous lives.
    Personal Opinion: I thought the Skeletal Priest in Emridy Meadows is awesome just the way Livonya made it. It is something a DM throws in the mix to keep people off balance - keeps the game interesting, improves the game, and irritates people who cannot point at a rule in a book. It is a unique monster, and it can be killed easily. It makes for a new, fun fight.
    * I would suggest to keep it as it was made by Livonya just because it is cool as she made and intended it to be. Changing her Skeletal Priest is something that would make me - for one - not want to install your MOD.

    About recruitable NPCs,
    -prince Thrommel is now a paladin, with equipment worthy of him.
    Question: What about Cujo's changes?

    Since there was no track of those NPCs in the original ToEE handbook, they have been re-balanced accordingly to my will.
    - Bertram has some skills point in healing (dentist) and is a 2-weapon figting fighter (you know, cutlass and dagger as a pirate.... oh, he IS a pirate!) even if, IMHO, the ranger class does fits Bertram better than the fighter one. Rangers are more stealthy, usually chaotic, are hunters that may hunt humans and other humanoids and do not wear medium or heavy armors that may be deadly if forced to jump in the river or in sea because the ship is shrinking. More rangers have heal as skill class and are more suited for a gentle spirit like bertram. In 3.5 the ranger *may be* a hero like paladin but it is allowed to have evil rangers as well, without any "fallen" status.
    Personal Opinion: Rangers can be nice, or even very nice, but I hope you don't subscribe to all good rangers are nice and gentle. That would be a blanket statement. A good-aligned ranger can very much be a spit-in-someones-face and smash-their-teeth-down-their-throat as much as any common fighter and not become fallen or lose points with the one they believe in and follow. A Chaotic Good ranger could very well be a ranger who is adamant about and has no problem tracking and slaying any human or demi-human or goblins or goblinoids who defile his region or terrotory he protects, and the CG ranger in discussion does not have to be cavalier about it. A Lawful Good ranger could be the exact same way, but would, probably, tend to be cavalier about it.

    Ed, ted and Ed are now respectively a ranged 4th level fighter specialized with crossbow (STR 11, Dex 18), a fac-totum with all scores at 15 and a 4th level fighter specialized into melee weapons.
    The plain truth: When you talk to Mona after helping her get her orb back, talking to Mona can have the game set something in motion [sort of like a limited wish]. One option is to select "...you like to find humor in all things..." and guess what you get? (a completely useless set of characters to invite to your party) Ed, Ted, and Ed [that's funny]

    - Inverted the feats between Rianna and Serena, including different selection of skill points. Since Rianna is a wore and is supposed to be able to use some sado-maso tools, she is proficient with the spiked chain, the closed weapon to the whip, and has feats to move stealthy. Serena is instead a thief, catched by Mona, so now she has the skills to be a thief (stealing, unlocking, pick-pocketing) and has the feats to be an archer, or whatever.
    The plain truth: Rianna is one of Ophilia's two problems who owes her money. Rianna stole 500 GP from Ophilia because Rianna is a thief. That is the amount she was caught stealing; who knows how much she has actually stolen over time. Rianna wants a way out of owing Ophilia money and will take it however she can steal it. When the game was made, they decided to place a recruitable fighter here, thief there, ranger here, sage (wizard) there, cleric here, etc. I disagree with your decision about reversing the the feats of the two rogue sisters in Nulb as your changes do not make sense. It's hard to describe why when describing why would mean discussing elements about whores and the Snake Pit which could be considered profanity and get someone banned. Simply stated, Rianna and Serena should not have their feats reversed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2005
  8. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Thats what that does? Well there you go. Silent Ed has a funny death line, for sure.

    Gotta say I agree with the comment about Liv's skeleton: I know why you made that change Orion, you've explained it at length before, but I gotta go with Gaear's comments on respect, you don't just change other people's stuff like that, over such a subtle objection.

    Otherwise I like the look of all these, and it IS only a beta so balance issues etc can be worked out.

    Edit: What are elite rollls???
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2005
  9. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    That's true, but then a "skeletal priest" is , by definition, not a "skeleton".

    I will try your mod eventually, once my schedual allows. Some of your changes sound intriguing.
     
  10. 0rion79

    0rion79 Established Member

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    Question: Why do all monsters and npcs with stats get elite rolls? Is this just something you modified to add more challenge to the game? [Just curious as to why, what is your reasoning?]

    because they already had some sort of elite scores, that were kinda unreasonable, because the monster manual says that a monster that takes a character class has the standard or elite score set (13,12,11,10,9,8 or the one that I used), becauase I added it to monsters that were leaders of something and to elite xxxx (bugbears or ogres). and yes, to make the game a bit more challengening.

    Question: Do you mean the Area of Opportunity component toward getting extra hits using these two weapons that causes a CTD when they are armed and used in combat in the Elemental Node of Fire?

    No, sorry. but I saw that in the last relase those weapons didn't overcome magical damage reduction. Now they do.

    Questions: I do not believe it was broken. It was made to be a superior magic weapon according to its stature in the history of fantasy. Why change it? Does it have to be changed?

    It was: it was changed to greatsword but keeping its original longsword proficiency and I restored back to longsword adding by myself the missing attributes that make it a perfect Holy Avenger.

    Question: Does Ooghrist's emeral belt still have its acid protection?
    yes, sure and I changed it to something different adding a bit of background to the item., even if I'm still thinking about those changes and I'm thinking about moving them to a different belt.

    Questions: Isn't the regeneration you've giving to Hydra extreme? [...]
    No, the hydra is like that in the monster manual and it is even weaker because you don't have to cut the heads away when fighting against it. More, I lowered some stats that were proper of 10-heads hydras and that were added to that one that is 5-heads only. Basically, now it is a monster that requires more cooperation to be defeated but nothing impossible.

    Glabrezu (should not use his stench that paralized himslef too)
    Question Did you mean Herzou, here?
    yes, sorry

    About Liv's skeleton....
    Sorry, not my problem. Basically, it is still the same, still works as Liv did and I only changed the animation and the paint so that it is more in line with the monster handbook, nothing else. More, consider that the meadows where the battlefield where the temple of the elemental evil army and the good forces against it had the battle in the starting movie and it makes sense to find a ghost still following his orders of previous life. I would have asekd her permission, but she is not here and I think that, since it is only an aestethic change that lightly influence gameplay (almost doesn't at all), she would agree with me.

    About recruitable NPCs,
    -prince Thrommel is now a paladin, with equipment worthy of him.
    Question: What about Cujo's changes?

    I didnt' change them, they are still inside. My mod is an add-on, not something that goes against the existing changes.

    Personal Opinion: Rangers can be nice, [...] I agree.

    The plain truth: When you talk to Mona after helping her get her orb back, talking to Mona can have the game set something in motion [sort of like a limited wish]. One option is to select "...you like to find humor in all things..." and guess what you get? (a completely useless set of characters to invite to your party) Ed, Ted, and Ed [that's funny]
    I know, but I can't remember anybody that ever used them, even because they fill your 5-party team with nothing and there is still the humoristic side of having the 3 guys that looks like twins but act differently. Now I see them almost like a "power-rangers" team, where everybody is specialized into something but is, somehow, ridiculous. As Liv told once, she wished to make the players to give at least a try to all NPCs and I tried to do the same in my own way.


    The plain truth: Rianna is one of Ophilia's two problems who owes her money. Rianna stole 500 GP from Ophilia because Rianna is a thief. QUOTE]

    This is an interesting and smart observation and I care about it BUT, being accurate, the main change is that I re-distributed skill points among them, since having 2 rogues in the same party with the same skills may not be the best deal for a player. But still, I may always move some Riana's skill points into Pick-pocketing for role-playing reasons.

    As I told to allyx, I can't make a mod that is universally accepted by everybody at once. You argued about my decision to change Liv's priest but a purist of D&D rules would thanks me for correcting such an error, since, as told before, skeleton kinds don't have any intelligence points and loose all characteristics, including class levesl, from previous life. So a skeleton (or skeletal) priest cannot exist and a lich would be out of place and too hard to beat. But, since this one is probably my last effort, I think that this may be used as base for further development and that the few things that really goes against the mayority of the community may be easily restored or further changed and that it is only a small price for something that just FIXES the list that I listed above. (I only hope that it does not quit to desktop again, but the ToEE world builder read it clearly, while it was unable to fully open my previous relase). But please, don't care about it NOW and give it a try first.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2005
  11. 0rion79

    0rion79 Established Member

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    How am I supposed to send it to you? Untill the moderator here tells me how I may upload the file, the ones that want to try the mod should send me their e-mail address so that I may send the missing protos.tab
     
  12. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Email it to me at shiningted@yahoo.com and I will put the whole lot on my savefile server and add a link here so everyone can give it a try.
     
  13. krunch

    krunch moving on in life

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    As long as it casts spells and fights the same as a Skeletal Priest without any other changes, I guess we will see when some of us try it. My point was that she, purposefully, made it outside of the rules to be different. It does not follow the rules or make sense, and it's not supposed to follow normal rules or make sense to purists, either.

    Let me paint a picture for you. The concept is someone sees on the screen what they perceive to be a skeleton and move in to fight it. Surprise! It's a dadgummed I don't know what it is, but when combat started a desecrate spell covers the combat area and when I mouse over it, it shows Skeletal Priest, and the crazy thing casts spells, too! Yikes! How does my party kill it? It was intended to be a low-to-mid level new and fun encounter.

    * It's like when a DM gives a unique bugbear 9 hit dice or gives a unique ghost 13 hit dice or gives a unique hill giant 19 hit dice with no explanation or reason, it just is.
    * Or, like a room filled with gold coins in the middle of the floor and no guardian or monster - for each 10 GP a character picks up, the character has to roll 1d10 and each roll of one is 5 damage and each roll of two is 3 damage and each roll of three is 1 damage with no reason or explanation, it just is. And, if a character has too many bad rolls, it's where'd we place that raise spell and hey cleric stop ratchetjawing and get up here in front and get busy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2005
  14. 0rion79

    0rion79 Established Member

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    I am perfectly aware of it but I don't share your opinion for the reasons expressed before. And I want you to note that I play D&D for the great mechanics that allows to grestly customize the world but I don't like things that, for my logic, are impossible and I don't see any role-playing reasons for wich that priest should be something so special to be an exception to the archetipes already described in the monster manual. Of course, using fantasy everybody could find a good explanation for a thinking skeletal creature but I think that the environment and the circumstances does not justify an exception.
    Now, we could start arguing for hours about this matter but it is not my goal and you are free to take the protos editor and revert the change if you think that the new animation is not worthy of, comparing it with one of an existing skeleton or with the older protos and looking at the colums with the tag animation and picture (or whatever).
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2005
  15. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

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    Last edited: Oct 5, 2005
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