In my CMF 5.05 install, I noticed that gamequest.mes does not have any entry (i.e., a CR value) for Quest 62 (Orc Season). I compared gamequest.mes with gamequestlog.mes and determined that this is the only quest without a CR, so I assume this is an oversight. Searched the forums for a while, but didn't see anything, so I figured I'd post about it here. FYI, my party is on its way to fight them; this will be my first time, so I'm not sure how hard it will be, so Ican't really propose a CR We're 5 PCs level 4 + 3 NPCs level 3/4, and we cleared the Moathouse without any problems. I'm assuming I'll make it a 3 or a 4; Kenter actually marks the quest complete (000town elder.dlg line 213), so I assume as long as I add the CR before talking to him I'll get the XP. --thearioch
The raging orcs made it to the edge of Meleny's Entanglement and died like the biatches they are. 1st try -- most spells gone, I just waltzed in to see if you were right. Orcs killed my Animal Companions and Ronald. I reloaded at that point -- seeing my Animals die was too disheartening. So, yes, Gaear, you were technically right. Now, using my party at full strength: 2nd try -- rested so I had spells. I was doing fine, but my mouse slipped and I accidentally Enlarged a spell caster instead of my dual-short-sword wielding ranger. I hate twitchy UIs. I reloaded. 3rd try (rested) -- Orcs dropped my dog (to -3, I stabilized him at -5). Meleny took 2 hp damage. Pishella took 12 hp damage. The orcs took the rest. Really, how does *anybody* with a 1+ level Druid have a problem with this encounter? Notes for future game designers: don't give assassin NPCs/monsters names like "Orc Assassin" unless you don't plan on that mob reaching the party alive. Unfortunately, as the fight is (on paper) tougher than the toughest Moat House fight, I'm recommending CR 4. I suppose if I was 5 (instead of 8) level 4 chars, it would have been a closer match. --thearioch
Oh, and Feverbody'sI, ToEE apparently gives quests with no assigned CR a default CR of 1. No surprise, just thought I'd share what I learned. Just for general hilarity, is there any methodology to assigning CRs to quests? And is the expected XP gained through combat / trap detecting factored into said methodology? --thearioch
Methodology? My guess would be that it's simply set high enough so that you gain a not-completely-negligible amount of XP for completing it at the point of the game the developer expects you to be at. It doesn't factor in anything at this point except that the quest is completed, but you could do some scripting magic using the award_experience() command.
If there was a methodology to the original one, I don't know it - I always assumed it was based on difficulty and length of time. Because many people don't use Entanglement, it being brokenly overpowered n all?
That's kind of what I expected. I was just curious if Co8 had any guidelines or anything. I know I've seen discussions about whether or not some quests (Courier Revealed) even deserve to exist. I have several candidates for similar discussion (getting quest XP for picking up a 3rd level NPC at 1st level anyone). --thearioch
This is true. Let them go free-range, with their hyper-occuring raging criticals and quicksilver navigating of seemingly blocked avenues, and you'll soon be pulling your hair out in frustration. Also, your party level might be a bit higher than average. I think that quest was originally intended to be something of a counterpart to the Deklo Grove.
I'd say it was a pretty good fight, actually. I was just trash talking after you said a spellcaster would die. I think the Entangle was the key -- that's what let me concentrate on one or two at a time. I'd say a full 1/2 died right on the edge of the Entangle, so without it, I imagine I would have been swamped. And I forgot, the archers were trying to stop Meleny from casting. Good thing I have a nice DM (e.g., for my own enjoyment purposes, I've been rather liberal with ProtoEd and the console). So, I'm probably an 8x5th level party equivalent. Anyway, I liked that you really wanted to be full strength for that encounter (even if it didn't take ll your resources, you really shouldn't show those orcs any weakness. @ Gaear (and, well, anyone): 1) I think I'm going to remove the quest entirely. For something a simple "kill x" quest in DnD, all XP should come from the CR/EL of the fight. I'm think of replacing quests with reputations (so they show up in your log as something done, but not as a quest with separate XP). Too badit doesn't seem like Troika used the Arcanum reputation system (I seem to recall it allowing you to add bonuses/penalties to players). 2) I'm definitely removing the Orc's Blood quest (*more* xp for the same thing?). 3) Is there any way to limit Entangle based on the terrain? Per PnP, nearby vegetation should be required. --therioch
You're gonna have to slow down there, thearioch ... Bear in mind that in general we try to avoid 'tampering' with the work of other modders, provided there's no obvious need to change anything. I think, for example, that the orc blood thing was a Zebedee mod, and he may not be delighted to find that we decided to change it at our discretion. Is it really egregiously in error? Also, it'd be best if you ran ideas like removing this quest or that quest by me first before you implement them in any mods, or even better, open the topic for discussion publically (apologies if that's in fact what you were doing here). I'm the modpack 'boss' at the moment, after all, so I get to decide on this sort of thing in the end, if something needs deciding on. Also wanted to mention - it would be best if you weren't playing a custom game, for the sake of modders' consistency. We need to all be on the same page as much as possible, and custom proto changes for this guy but not that guy make that difficult to do. Otherwise, carry on.
Originally, I just grabbed the mod tools and started hacking away at things for my own amusement; I am trying to keep that separate from the changes I've been making that I think others would like. The only protos.tab I plan on presenting so far is the "Evil Athlea", and I'll just grab the current "official" one when I need to. Other than that, I've added a lot of items for my party to my personal protos.tab because I try to equip my party based on the portraits I selected and photoshopped. Any "official" testing I do will be with the "official" protos.tab (and "regulation" characters). It's hard playing for both relaxation and development at the same time, but I'm sure you guys know about that I know Zeb added the Orc blood quest, but it was to Bing. As part of my religion-quest overhaul, I'm redoing the whole Borton family, including Bing. This quest was only available down the line of Healing Bing without having the convert-Jakk-Borton quest, which I'm redoing. I don't plan on editing Terjon or Jaroo in protos.tab, but keeping them "as is" presents problems in that certain quests just aren't realistic with them at their current levels. I'm trying to redo their quests so that their requests for player involvement make sense. Furthermore, that quest is essentially a "freebie" as you get the blood if you do Kennet's quest. The idea isn't bad, and I don't want to just remove people's work, so I *do* have a plan for it and Quest 62. FYI, it is as follows: o Terjon and Jarooo can't cure Bing and don't know why. o Bing's sister already mentions the word curse...and we know witches are in the area o Lila (or another witch) says she can cure Bing, but that Orc blood is needed. o Kennet will mention(but not give a quest) for Orcs, so PCs wanting orc blood can talk to him and get the location. o PCs fight Orcs and get blood as needed (Zeb's quest) for witch o Witch removes Bing's curse o Bing starts helping Jakk by making MW items as before Note, I will post a more specific proposalbefore just uploading files. I am still working on how to integrate the conversion part of the quest. I may remove it entirely (Terjon just arbitrarily wanting one more convert and picking one who his God couldn't cure and telling you to just make it happen is pretty weak) and just leave the Orcs/Blood quest part. --arioch
Only thing to remember there is that, assuming you're basing the existence of the witches on Desperate Housewives, that's an optional install. So players who don't intsall DH wouldn't really know what those references are supposed to mean and might indeed become very confused. Sounds eminently reasonable otherwise.
D'oh. Thanks for the heads up. I plan on making a clean uninstall/reinstall with whatever the current CMF is at the time before making my changes, but I forgot I'll have to check a couple extra set of files based on options like DH. Before I start my finalization, I'll check back here (at the forum, not necessarily this thread) and see what options I need to support as well. Now I see why you were concerned about install-time options. --thearioch
