No tumbling in medium/heavy armor?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by short, Aug 7, 2013.

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  1. shapecharge

    shapecharge Established Member

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    Ok this is just my take, and by no means am I a rule lawyer.

    I believe the Dwarven trait allows you to not take movement penalties when wearing heavy or medium armor or Encumbered. but I do not believe this gives you the ability to ignore medium and heavy armor restrictions to skills or class abilities.
    So the Tumble skill says it cannot be used when wearing medium or heavy armor, so even though the dwarves movement speed is not affected by his wearing of med/hev armor his tumbling ability is (thus the OP ability to tumble in his chain shirt but not plate even though his movement is unchanged). So I think this rule is being applied correctly.
    Just as the ranger special combat style someone choses at 2nd level it specifically mentions that the style is not useable in med/hev armor. Though a Dwarf ranger can wear plate and still move 20ft but he would loose his rapid shot ability. At least that's how I interrupt it.
     
  2. short

    short Member

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    If that was actually what the tumble skill said then I would agree with your analysis, but the official rules say "You can’t use this skill if your speed has been reduced by armor, excess equipment, or loot" (tumble) and makes no mention of the type of armor.

    On the other hand, the in-game description says you can't tumble in medium or heavy armor, in which case your analysis applies. So it's not a question of what the rules say, but whether or not the game should follow the official rules. Personally I don't see why it shouldn't, but they would probably have fixed it by now if it was easy/possible.
     
  3. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Well, tumble or no tumble .... no party is complete without a dwarf!


    Why ... Back in the day, we had to use a dwarf or we had no real fighter ... And we liked it! *Shakes his cane at the young whipper snappers*
     
  4. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    Gehennis is correct, UMD is the ability for a character to use a magic item they normally could not. I usually have a high INT rogue so he has a lot of skill points to spread around. I try to put some into UMD, at least every other level, so by the late game he an use wands, as an extra fireball here and there never hurts.

    As to your question, I have everyone take Tumble. I try to have that skill monkey roue take the convo skills, and pick lock, disable traps, spot, listen, and appraise. I do not take Move Silently and Hide, as I rarely feel the need to scout ahead, I just go in Leeroy Jenkins style.

    Spellcasters do take Concentration, and Spellcraft. If I have a druid, ranger or barbarian, I try to take Wilderness Lore to help against random encounters.
     
  5. hellblazer

    hellblazer Established Member

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    Re: Dwarves not tumbling in medium/heavy armor?

    What is your encumberance while wearing the medium or heavy armor? Maybe you still can't tumble as a dwarf (like everyone else in TOEE) if you are encombered and it has nothing to do with the armor you are wearing because that just adds a penalty to your tumble skill.

    I remember having tumbled in TOEE with mithril full plate.
     
  6. Legless

    Legless Established Member

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    Thanks GG, I use Sneak to get the giants loot in Emridy Meadows so I put sp into Move Silently and Hide, but as I nick his gear in level 1, there is really no point, unless it increases the opportunity to sneak attack?
     
  7. shapecharge

    shapecharge Established Member

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    This is what I was trying to say in my earlier post, and I agree Encumbrance doesn't slow a dwarfs movement, but he is still considered encumbered so he cannot tumble. The dwarf racial trait just alleviates one aspect of encumbrance (the speed reduction part), does not make the dwarf unencumbered.

    Oh well were debating a rule that a group in PnP could just adjudicate in their gaming group and be done with it.....but since it is a CRPG, we are all kind of at the mercy of the game engine and its "LAWS and RULES".

    Understand what your saying though short don't agree with you but get your point.
     
  8. short

    short Member

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    Re: Dwarves not tumbling in medium/heavy armor?

    @hellblazer
    He was unencumbered (see screenshots in an earlier post). I would be very interested if you could duplicate your tumbling in mithral plate, since that's exactly what I wanted to do.

    Well, the speed reduction part is the only part that matters. Referring to the rules again: "You can’t use this skill if your speed has been reduced by armor, excess equipment, or loot." Being encumbered doesn't matter here unless it reduces your speed. Which it usually does, of course, unless you happen to be a dwarf. :)
     
  9. shapecharge

    shapecharge Established Member

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  10. valky

    valky Member

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    Re: Dwarves not tumbling in medium/heavy armor?

    Am quite interested in this behavior as well, since I recently (yesterday ^^) started a new party in 7.9. If it'll not work - probably I have the answer by the end of tomorrow - I'll switch to the planned Elven Shirt, as they are abundant anyway :p

    As far as I remember the rules or playing PnP ages ago, the dwarf should be able to tumble as long as he (she?!) is not further restricted in the movement, as it's already mentioned in this thread.
    [on the other hand and cause of their short legs and despite the rules, they'd get in 'theory' their movement restricted nonetheless, even if they can't walk/run faster anyway; so I'd go for: no tumbling for the dwarf! :roll: usually it was our DM's decision..]

    Will try to re-produce this too and give a short notice..only need to finish Moathouse and then it's going to Nulb anyway
     
  11. ithildur

    ithildur Established Member

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    Ok, someone buy this guy a clue; he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about regarding the rules, and is embarrassing himself by making these claims. :no:
     
  12. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Just for the record, there is no rule stopping a dwarf from tumbling.

    Different armors give you a negative on your tumble skill, but you can still attempt a tumble even with a skill of -10 in tumble.

    Dwarves are special in the way that their movement rate, or distance is not affected by the weight they carry. They're still encumbered, but can still make a full move, albeit only 20ft.
     
  13. Nightcanon

    Nightcanon Garrulous Halfling

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    Putting aside the DnD rules either as written or intended, I see no reason why dwarfs in a fantasy game shouldn't be able to tumble (i.e. move round a battlefield using their dexterity to avoid being hit). Of course, elven rangers with amulets of natural armor and gloves of dex +6 do so by leaping and back-flipping over their foes like a dual-weilding olympic gymnast, while a dwarf rolls along the ground before springing back to his feet. Think Gimli in the LOTR movies.
     
  14. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Dwarves can tumble and tumble well, many a purse string have been cut by a tumbling/hiding dwarven rogue. :evilgrin:
     
  15. Gehennis

    Gehennis Established Member

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    Would it be correct in saying that dwarves are the exception to the rule? :)
     
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