New Player and New Party - Advice Needed Please

Hello All!

I am new to the forums and let me just start off by saying a big Thank You to the community for this wonderful mod and keeping this game alive.

I used to have this game a few years back and never got into it much because of the bugs and such. This mod is so perfect that I have purchased the game through GoG.com to play it. I have lost the install CD for the game so GoG.com came through!

This will be long so thank you so much if you get through it all.

So I am starting over from scratch and I can't think of anywhere else to get the best advice. All advice and opinions are greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

I have played D&D since I was a kid and know the rules all right.

I am trying to form my party. I LOVE that fact that I can have up to 8 characters. I can never decide which characters to make and the fact that I can make more is super great. I love to manage my party and level everybody up myself. I don't like NPCs much. I will only make a 7 person party because I know I need to have a spot open for at least 1 NPC here and there to complete quests.

I am NOT a power gamer. I do NOT like to multiclass. If I HAVE to multiclass ONE character I might consider it. I prefer to have each character have a flavor and fill a role. I do NOT want to have 2 of the same class.

Now, on to my party! I will leave my personal comments on each one.

I don't like "little" characters like gnomes and such.

I will probably play a Neutral Good party.

First, the MUST HAVE characters for me:

CLERIC- Human - This will be a typical Cleric. Probably go pretty standard stuff. I do know the Improved Turning feat is good so I will probably get that first

DRUID - Human - Does Druid stuff but will focus on Summons. Must have Feats will be Spell Focus (Conj), Augment Summoning and Natural Spell. Not sure what order.

FIGHTER- Human? - I know that weapons with reach can do some serious damage and I would like this guy to have that. He will also be the main Tank and use a sword and board when that is needed.

So I need 4 more classes. The roles I would like to fill with these are this:

2nd Melee Character: (Barb, Monk, Paladin, Ranger) Another reach weapon might be great
Archer: (Ranger, Rogue, Bard)
Magic: (Sorcerer, Wizard, Bard?)
Trap/lock Monkey: (Rogue, Bard, Ranger?)
Talker of the Group: (Bard, Sorcerer, Rogue)
Crafting: (See Yellow Below)

Here are my thoughts on each of the classes:

BARBARIAN - I would really like to have another "Tank" and the Barbarian is a super damage guy. I would like to give him another reach weapon and have him move around a bit. Maybe Whirlwind might be good down the road?

BARD- I need a "Talker" and the Bard will do great at this. I have never played a Bard in an D&D game and I know they can do great. They can snipe and maybe pick locks or disarm traps. The songs intrigue me and adds some flavor.

MONK- I don't know much about them so they are lower on my list. I know they can evade well and do some damage.

PALADIN - I think with the Druid and Cleric I have enough healing and buffing so the Paladin may not be needed as much. Another damage character may be a better choice. If the Paladin can be an offensive force as well I would look at him.

RANGER - Rangers hold a special place in my heart as that is what I usually played in D&D. I think that 2 weapon fighting is fantastic option in this game and would probably use him as the Sniper.

ROGUE - The classic Trap Monkey. I know they can be a fantastic Sniper as well and this might be a good option.

SORCERER - I have never played one but I know they do not have to memorize their spells and having the options in battle would be helpful. He can also be my "Talker" of the group as he will have a high CHARISMA.

WIZARD - The Classic Nuker. Weak in combat and non magic attacks but in higher level able to blast with the best of them.

So which classes would fit best to what I want to do in the group and is my general mindset correct?

Here are some General Questions I have.

Yellow-I am currently reading the Crafting Guide on Sorcerer's Place and it seems to say the best 2 man crafting combo is Cleric + Wizard. Druid can also be a decent one man crafting machine. What classes are best for Crafting?

Druid and Ranger Companions: I know you can pick an animal. Do you only pick this once? Can you change it ever? What happens if it dies? On a video online I watched a wolf just run up and die because you can't control it. That seems rather useless. Would something that moves slower be a better choice?

Again, thanks so much for any and all help. I am really looking forward to playing this game again with the mod.

-Odium

 

Well fist of all, WELCOME Odium to the forum and glad you found the game again.

For the characters and the group, it is so fluid that you can make a different party for each play through. I would recommend skipping the monk until you get more experience with the game and how it flows. Barbarians are great ragers and I would say it is best to equip him with a 2 handed weapon, if not a reach weapon to take advantage of his strength bonus and rage pluses. A ranger is both cool as a 2 handed fighter or as an archer. be aware that your rogue can also be a nice 2 weapon fighter to use his sneak attack with each strike of his blade. A druid or ranger can summon various animals companions at any time, and they do get progressively better as you level up. Also if you play a druid, take spell focus conjuration and augment summoning first, as you will not get a wild shape until a higher level. Reminder that a druid can spontaneously cast any summon spell, so you do not have to memorize them ahead of time. Just as a cleric who is good or neutral, can spontaneously cast healing spells.

For crafting the best is for a wizard or cleric, as they have so many more spells available in their lists. A druid (or a much higher level ranger) gets amulets of natural armor to craft. Also a high level paladin or ranger can also enhance masterwork weapons and armor in case you want to use one of them to do the basic add ons.

Hope this helps and I am sure there are others who can suggest even more tricks of the trade.



Sorcerers are also nice as you can cast on demand, and not have to memorize.

 

I find rogues are the best talkers, but they need a high INT score to take advantage of more skill points to spread around. There are enough traps in the game to necessitate having a rogue in most parties.

I would also suggest not going for the full 8 characters. While there is no need to use any NPCs, you do sometimes need to escort some people and need a slot to take them with. Some NPCs have great dialogs and add some flair to the game.

Make sure everyone uses a different weapon, you do find some nice ones in the game, and you can always make whatever you want later, but no need to have 2 characters fighting over the first +1 longsword you find.

Have your druid specialize in Summoning, take the Augment Summoning feat early, then call in help during the tough fights.

Charming works suprisingly well in this game, wizards and bards should take the variations of the spell. Going from 6 on 12 to 7 on 11 can turn a fight in your favor quickly.

Reach weapons are your friend! Get a fighter or barbarian with a ranseur or glaive and watch the carnage!

 

Some other things to keep in mind is that the larger the group the slower you will rise in levels due to the less XP awarded individually.

Spiritual Weapons are also really cool to cast on the far side of the enemies. They will distract enemies and have them attack the Weapon and not you. Alos you can cast them in the middle of Grease and Stinking Clouds and they are not effected by those spells.

Summoned critters are also nice to use as Damage absorbers.

 

As frontliners I would recommend one or two barbarians with reach weapons. After level 5 they can’t be flanked so you can just rush them in the middle of the heat. High dex combined with great cleave and combat reflexes make them really deadly.

As a second melee character I would choose a paladin with high str and cha. Such a character would have high resistance, ability to turn undead and the lay on hands skill makes a good healer, not to mention the smite evil skill.

Best archer I know of is a high dex/str rogue with composite longbow. That would be also the best trap/lock picker.

Support magician I would choose bard, wizards are just boring. Bardic songs are really useful. Bards are also the best spokespersons.

For crafting I would choose a LG cleric, the combination of axiomatic and holy weapons is just unchallenged. Also such character can craft the Percipient of Wound Closure, which is in my opinion the one most useful item in the game.

 

My $0.02:

Wizards are "better" than sorcerers. They get higher-level spells more quickly, and hence can craft better items more quickly. The inconvenience of not being able to pick spells on the fly doesn't end up making much of a difference, since you end up using the same spells repeatedly anyway ("you" being "me," anyway. )

For your secondary tank, a straightforward human fighter is a great bet. You get so many feats that you can end up with just about all of the useful melee-related ones by about 10th level (i.e. great cleave, combat expertise, improved critical, etc.) Just pick a good weapon and stack up your feats appropriately: weapon focus, specialization, and so on.

Here's my big epiphany from my latest playthrough: it can be extremely helpful to give rogues, clerics, and bards (even barbarians, actually) a level of fighter. Instantly, they get all martial weapon proficiencies and an extra feat. If you are using a rogue or bard as an archer or two-weapon wielder, that one level of fighter makes them a lot more effective because they can use longbows and longswords instead of shortbows and shortswords (among other things.)

Finally, remember to pick characters you think are fun and interesting! Monks are not as effective in straight-up combat stats as are the other fighting classes, but they can be really fun regardless. This forum is full of folks who have beat the game with crazy party combinations.

Oh, and ditto on the thing about having too large a party: more than five really slows down your progress in terms of XP.

Have fun and welcome aboard!

 

Thanks so much for the welcome and great advice!

I just have a few questions on some of the things that have been brought up.

1. XP, I do know that having a larger party will bring down the XP some but there are random encounters in this game right? If I wanted to could I just travel back a forth for a while whenever I want to get some more XP?

2. Rogue, I know adding a level of Fighter will help more but like I said I would just like to play each class the way it was meant to be. I was thinking of making the Rogue an Elf so he could use Longbows and have Higher Dex. He was going to be my Skill Monkey.

3. Bard, Again I would rather not add a level of Fighter and again I was thinking of making him an Elf to have the Longbow and gain the DEX. He was going to be my "Talker".

4. Cleric, I can't choose LAW or WAR Domain. LAW has the crafting for Axiomatic weapons while WAR has Spiritual Weapon.

5. Improved Initiative Feat: This seems like a mist have Feat for almost everybody. Being able to have a chance to go first in each round looks really good. Should most characters have this?

6. Wizard vs Sorcerer. I am really thinking I need one of these. I just don't know if the Cleric, Druid and Bard can pump out enough mass magic at the higher levels. Plus the crafting.

7. Crafting: What is the opinions on Staffs, Rods and Potions? I am already planning on doing wondrous items Feats on probably multiple characters. Is having these feats worth it or do you find enough Staffs, Rods, and especially Potions in the game?

8. Crafting. I REALLY like the crafting aspect and I wish I could just give all the Crafting feats to all my characters! I would like to maximize my crafting ability so taking a wizard might be worth it. When it comes to

 

You may want to split up the crafting feats amongst the group, Both to lessen the XP cost on a character as well as take advantage of what various classes can craft.

 

Okay, diverting from this real fast to a INSTALL problem.

I the error when I run the CO8 pack that says:

ERROR: YOU MUST RUN TOEEFE X FROM THE TEMPLE OF ELEMENTAL EVIL ROOT FOLDER!

IF YOU ARE RUNNING TOEEFE X FROM THE ROOT TOEE FOLDER AND ARE STILL GETTING THIS ERROR, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE OFFICIAL PATCH 2 INSTALLED BEFORE TRYING AGAIN.

I uninstalled my AV before doing a fresh install.

I did a fresh install from GOG.com

Any ideas?

 

TFE-X.exe must be located in the same directory as Toee.exe. I got fooled a bit by this to the first time I installed the NC 6.0. I selected Temple of Elemental Evil directory and then "Temple of Elemental Evil" was appended to my selected path, so the actual installation of TFE-X.exe ended up in the wrong place. Just reinstall and make sure that the path is correct when installing.

 

Hi
Just a few comments if I may.

The Royal Canadian

 

Regarding the installation issue, just be sure to read through the official documentation on how to install (and activate) the modpack, available to you on such forums as...this one.

Rest assured, it works on just about every possible PC setup.

Regarding your other questions / points:

1. There are random encounters, but they don't generate enough XP (unless you go after them over and over and over for *hours*) to make much of an impact.

2. Fair enough on not wanting to add a level of fighter, although "how they're meant to be played" is a subjective call. I've always thought the fighter-rogue was one of the classic D+D archetypes.

3. A wizard or sorcerer is a must, especially for the first playthrough. Fireballs are the bread-and-butter of getting through the middle 2/3 of the game.

4. Improved Initiative is good for everybody, but is only *necessary* for rogues, because all flat-footed enemies (i.e. ones whose initiatives haven't come up yet when combat begins) are vulnerable to sneak attacks. I find it's also nice for wizards so that they can fire off a spell before the baddies have a chance to do anything about it.

5. Crafting: I've found that getting your cleric going with crafting Arms + Armor is essential; you need magic weapons and armor, and your cleric is a great choice for creating them. You can divvy up crafting duties between your cleric and your other spellcaster(s). Staffs and rods don't really come into the game, honestly - wondrous items, weapons, armor, and wands cover most of it. Oh, and you find a lot of potions (and can buy them as well.)

6. ...which leads to: your cleric's domain. The single most effective crafting ability is that of making holy weapons, which is only available to clerics with the GOOD domain. Just sayin' :Being_a_s

Hope that helps!

 

This worked. Thanks so much mate!

 

I always choose this feat for al my characters. To go first, especially during RE, just makes the difference. IMO.

 

Bard options....

2 levels of ranger with bow feats. Bards are usually back of the party players to begin with so pairing its bardic song with some ranged punch is a good idea.

When you get it, Greater Magic Weapon cast by another party menber can boost the Rgr2/BrdX's damage and to hit.


Wizards vs. Sorcerer

I go wizard, because in crafting they cannot be beat. The two extra feats mean that you can take craft wand (which means you can dump important non-combat and buffing spells out of your memorized spell rotation).

example: I crafted a wand of knock and enlarge person. resist energy was next on the list when I was going to attack the faction temples and nodes.

generally you want to stay away from offensive spells that have a DC save attached as you will not be able to boost them with levels and feats after you create the wand.

exception, I crafted a 9th level fireball wand at one point so I could clear rooms of low-level mooks and sand down the hp of the heavy hitters so my power attacking beat sticks could make use of cleave and great cleave.

My two coppers,

~~Saracenus