New content Rant

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by darmagon, Mar 11, 2006.

Remove all ads!
Page 1 of 2
  1. darmagon

    darmagon stumbler in the dark

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have been thinking about things lately (OK not only lately, but since I first started developing spells and whatnot). And do not get me wrong, I enjoy, (for the most part) the job I have assigned myself and just might go on until every spell has been done just because. But the fact is, that in the normal course of the game, almost no one is going to get a party to a high enough level to actually use these spells. Couple that and the fact that we can actually advance to 20th level and I think we need to look at new ways of making the game more difficult and involved. First consideration, it should take a 20th level party (or close to it) to face Zuggtmoy at the end. The Node Guardians should be oomphed as well. It should be harder to find the temple and/or nulb and or some other places. If possible, there should be more interstitial maps added. Once we get to the actual temple most of the encounters should be enhanced(add a caster, or more enemiies. tougher enemies or enemies with more class levels)

    I know this is a major under taking but given that the level max is now 20th we should try to accomodate it.

    Darmagon
     
    darmagon, Mar 11, 2006
    #1
  2. hellblazer

    hellblazer Established Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agreed. There isn't any option to increase the difficulty other than using characters with lower stats or ironman mode - which really doesn't make the game harder it just disables the ability save the game.
     
    hellblazer, Mar 11, 2006
    #2
  3. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    5,009
    Likes Received:
    255
    Well currently, we only recieve 70% of XP per encounter that the rulebooks state we should be getting (there is a file in the dats that limit's XP gain to this percentage), I'm also doing the Verbobonc thing, which (currently isn't finished) is an optional area and should add a level or 2 to any group that finishes it. Tougher monsters in the temple and fixing the 4th level in the temple (currently they KOS instead of offering you quests like they should - according to the dialogues) should also boost XP up a bit.

    You may also remember I made a "tough Zuggy" which Krunch tested, he used a 20th level group and barely survived.
     
    Allyx, Mar 11, 2006
    #3
  4. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    3,151
    Likes Received:
    1
    I posted a list of monsters that should be in the nodes, based on the original module, here, somewhere. This included a number of actual dragons...I'll see if I can link it here. Didn't someone make a dragon or two? Imagine...Dungeons AND Dragons...!

    http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?p=15979#post15979

    Okay, so it's not a full list; but one can see how others felt about this when the subject came up way back when.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2006
    Lord_Spike, Mar 11, 2006
    #4
  5. krunch

    krunch moving on in life

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,280
    Likes Received:
    0
    wow...i did not know this
     
    krunch, Mar 11, 2006
    #5
  6. hellblazer

    hellblazer Established Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wow mutiple dragons! OK - now I can see why people call this a classic Gygax module - I never played it in pen and paper. Give us dragons! Yeah for dragons of all types and dispositions!
     
    hellblazer, Mar 11, 2006
    #6
  7. Cuchulainn

    Cuchulainn Windmill Tilter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just me $0.02

    I had been thinking along the same lines as Darmagon. With the abilty to get up to 20th lvl and all the high level stuff being modded in, it's a real shame that the available quests are all for such low level PCs. Just making the game itself harder might not be the greatest solution, for one it would make things very slow. What I really wanted to see myself is another module that you could carry your PCs over to. I mean if your actualy "role playing" your charactoers you get kind of attached to them, and it would be a great chance to itroduce higher level challenges and comensurate rewards.

    I'd been thinking about this for a while, actualy started to post something about this the other day, but decided that with everything going on no one needed another project suggestion. Since a whole new module is beyond the available resources right now, what about the idea of just working on individual quests. Something like Alyx's Verbobonc mod but based at say 12th lvl PCs. It could be something that grows slowly over time.

    Anyway I would LOVE to see this, and would of course happily offer my services limited as they may be.

    Cuchulainn.
     
    Cuchulainn, Mar 11, 2006
    #7
  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    11,038
    Likes Received:
    42
    What you guys are all essentially talking about here, in one way or another, would amount to a massive project and would involve a lot of 'delicate rebalancement' [sic] and extensive playtesting. Basically, the entire advancement process would have to be rewritten, almost from the ground up, to accomodate twenty character levels and all their associated XP, and to span the time covered from starting out in Hommlet to ending up in Zuggtmoy's lair.

    If all that ground were going to be fleshed out for an additional 9-10 levels, you'd almost have to overhaul the temple and its previously discussed associated weaknesses in intelligence gathering, as having a 20th level party show up at your door unbeknownst to you after having gained 14 levels in the temple above would be, well, twice as incredible as having a 10th level party do the same after having gained 6 levels above. ;)

    I guess what I'm getting at here is that such a project shouldn't be embarked upon lightly, and that anyone involved had better be ready to make a U5: Lazarus -equivelent effort toward its end. For the record, I do agree that we've got a lot of wasted level potential as things stand right now, and that its sadly unlikely that most players will get access to the high-level elements that have been modded into the game, such as D's spells.
     
    Gaear, Mar 11, 2006
    #8
  9. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    12,747
    Likes Received:
    376
    There are a couple empty areas in Nulb that someone really thoughtful and creative could use for some high-level assassination quests or something super-difficult that gave a big XP payout (ie something more than just "insert dragons here".) Personally I always intended to expand Ah Fong to run a bare-knuckle contest, using the Tolub fight as a template. But I got distracted by other new-content issues.

    Every time I see a new spell from D, I think "Ahhh, GDQ just took a tiny step forward". The high level spells will enable us to make high level modules later on. I don't think it will be the 5 year U5:Lazarus development cycle, but we should be in this, at some level, for the long haul. I mean, afaik there are no other D&D turn-based games on the horizon - I have even heard it said Atari have officially (or not so officially) said they have no intenion of going that route again, and they own the license. So what other choice do we have?

    Of course, if Allyx were to make the Verbobonc Underdark respawning... :yes:

    Also, we could give serious thought to completely recreating the nodes. Original dragons etc in, bugs out, everyone happy, and its 'only' 4 maps.
     
    Shiningted, Mar 12, 2006
    #9
  10. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    3,151
    Likes Received:
    1
    GDQ...Man, I haven't screamed about that in a while. But it is the perfect follow-on. But I'd argue that you should not be higher than 10th to start G1, or else that module would be unbalanced. Most PC's I ever had in that cycle of modules were not higher than "name" level when they began it; some were slightly lower. The party would advance about 1 level per module for each of the G series(3 in all), then one for both D1 & D2; then another for D3; and another for Q1. Starting with a "Lord" or "High Priest"...level 9...you'd be 15th level if you survived Lolth. I suppose that with things being different nowadays, having an extra level or two wouldn't hurt things. The party could be level 20+ by the time they finished up Queen of the Spiders if the whole of what we're discussing got toughened a little, and went something like this:

    KotB...L1-6
    ToEE...L6-13
    GDQ ...L13-20

    Who knows what we'll all be doing by the time this comes to pass; I'll likely be retired. And without some fundamental changes, will we be able to make it at all? I guess we'll see.

    @ Ted...insert dragon here...? Just what are you trying to say!? You and your dual meanings...:smarty:
     
    Lord_Spike, Mar 12, 2006
    #10
  11. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    5,009
    Likes Received:
    255
    While we are on the subject of dragon's, I have skin's for white (Troika original), red and black dragon's (by Cujo), I can add proto's for these dragon's up to mature adult size (dragons of bigger sizes have more natural attack types than ToEE will allow (ToEE maximum = 6), the dracolisk is a bit trickier though, as parts of the "skin" would have to be transparent.
     
    Allyx, Mar 12, 2006
    #11
  12. Cuchulainn

    Cuchulainn Windmill Tilter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Transparent portions of the skin is doable.

    Dragons, now that sounds like fun. Although I think I may need to buy some bigger shields.:)

    Cuchulainn.
     
    Cuchulainn, Mar 12, 2006
    #12
  13. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,636
    Likes Received:
    1
    e-mail me a pic cos my books not handy
     
    Cujo, Mar 14, 2006
    #13
  14. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,653
    Likes Received:
    4
    I think folks are confusing dracolisk and dracolich.

    The former is a cross between a dragon and a basalisk. The latter is an undead dragon.
     
    Kalshane, Mar 14, 2006
    #14
  15. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,636
    Likes Received:
    1
    well I knew what a dracolich looked like but I thought a dracolisk was a new type of monster that I'd never heard of, that uses petrifying breath weapons... something similar to mine when I get up in the morning, I've got to make a fort saving throw or I knock myself out for another 5d6 mins
     
    Cujo, Mar 15, 2006
    #15
Page 1 of 2
Our Host!