Need some updated information-monks, rangers, clerics

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by General Ghoul, Jan 4, 2011.

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  1. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    I've done some search, but cannot find updated info on a few topics.

    1.MONKS-have any of the new weapons that Ah Fong sells considered a monk weapon, in that they don't need an exotic weapon feat to use them? Are any of these new weapons able to be used with the Fury of Blows? I would think a Monk Spade is a monk weapon, but I'm not sure. There are no good descriptions with some, like the rake and shovel, it just says its a rake, is it a simple, martial, or exotic weapon? Can a druid use a rake? Can a monk?

    2.RANGERS-This was brought up in another thread, but I've encountered it too. What exactly is happening at higher levels with favored enemies, are the early ones dropped or added to? I realize this might be a game engine problem, but I'd just like to know going in, then maybe I switch over to fighter or rogue instead of taking non effective ranger levels.

    3.CLERICS- Is there an updated list with domain powers and spells? Were any higher level spells added to domain lists? Does the plant domain give the survival skill as a class skill?
     
  2. dolio

    dolio Established Member

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    Monk spades don't count as monk weapons.

    However, several things Ah Fong sells do, although I can't remember all of them. Tonfas are one. There are also a few different blades. And yes, you can flurry with these, I think (I'm certain about the tonfas).
     
  3. Avatar_do_Grafite

    Avatar_do_Grafite Established Member

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    About Clerics:
    I'm playing 6.0.0 NC right now, with a warband of clerics. I shall say ya that there are some new high level spells, that ya shall find just looking in the spell list of the help menu in the game. Boring, I know, but for high level spells, the lists are short. There are some new spells added on the list of domani spells too, but those ones are a little more boring to find...
    About Domain powers, no, the Plant domain don't give ya the Survival skill. It gives ya Knoledge (nature), thatr is useless in the game and dont even figures in the skill list. In the other hand, it givbes ya the hability to turn/rebuke plants - never used, so, no idea of how it works - which affects all the fungus of the game. The domanins Animal and Knowledge just give ya nothing, since Vanilla till this point. Survival will be an excelent skill to figure in place of Knoledge (Nature) in both the Animal and Plant domain, amd maybe Appraise or a Skill Focus will be a great deal for the Knowledge domain too. But I'm not sure if it's possible tho change those things.
    Whathever. A complete spell list will be very useful I agree.
     
  4. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Please see the Co8 ME thread for a complete list of Co8 spells, including domain spells. :)
     
  5. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    Thanks for the update! One question, do the other domains just have a blank spot if they are not listed for any spell? Example: Animal domain has a 8th level domain listing, but no 6th, 7th, or 9th, but it would seem that it should have the appropriate Summon Nature's Ally spell. Also most domains don't have anything listed, will they ever get anything?



    Also, can you give any insight to the monk weapons questions; which new ones count, what feat is associated with them, what are rakes and shovels?
     
  6. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Unless dolio or Shiningted makes them, chances are there will be no more. I assume that Nerik (the Summon spells author) knew what he was doing when assigning various levels of those spells to domains and not others ... maybe I'll have a look at the SRD though. I also assume that there would be blank spots for domains with no spells, yes.

    No idea - I'll try to look into it sometime.
     
  7. dolio

    dolio Established Member

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    Wail of the Banshee is 9th level death domain, and destruction is 7th level. Those are in my spell pack.

    Some official domain spells simply can't be implemented satisfactorily in something like ToEE, and others would require engine support that doesn't exist. This even influenced some existing domain spells.

    For instance, chain lightning is supposed to be the 6th level air domain spell. In ToEE, it's 5th. The actual 5th level spell is control winds, but I can't really imagine that actually being a sensible spell for a computer game.

    Animal domain spells are:

    6: anti-life shell (probably needs non-existent engine support)
    7: animal shapes (same)
    9: shapechange (same)

    Existing spells could be ruled in, though. Summon nature's ally of the relevant level, for instance, since those seem appropriate.
     
  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I see no reason why that shouldn't be made RAW and changed to 6th. It was probably 5th in vanilla due to the original level cap (e.g. no one would ever get to use it as long as they topped out at level 10).
     
  9. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    Couldn't something be substituted for at least 6th and 7th levels? Most won't get a cleric high enough to cast 8th or 9th level spells. The summoning spells seem appropriate for the animal domain, any way to limit the summons to just a particular type of elemental, say earth elementals for the earth domain or air elementals for the air domain?

    What about the war domain getting Tensor's transformation and Mordenkainen's Sword? Death domain getting finger of death?

    Could animal shapes/shapechange work like either the druid's shapechange or be a one time Druid vestment-like spell-changing into a hill giant?
     
  10. dolio

    dolio Established Member

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    I don't think there's any way to limit the existing summoning spells. However, specific spells for a domain with the right elemental restriction are an option. For instance, the elemental domains are supposed to get elemental swarm at level 9, but only be able to cast it for their element. This could be done by making 4 <Element> Elemental Swarm spells. That's a little less exciting for the druids, since they shouldn't have to choose the element when they memorize the spell (I think), but I'm not sure there's a way to add new radial-menu-option spells anyhow.

    ---

    Tenser's transformation I have to veto. If you look at the spell script, what it does is apply divine power to you, and then apply some extra maluses, because divine power is too good. So there's no reason for a war domain cleric to have transformation for their 6th (say) level spell, because they already get divine power at 4th. They'd be better off just using their 6th level spot for divine power (which is possible; you just have to manually drag it to the slot).

    Mordenkainen's sword for 6th is a decent idea, though (since it's implemented as a better spiritual weapon, which they get at 2). 7 - 9 should, by the rules, be power word spells, which exist. I'll check if they're enabled for war domain.

    (Edit: War domain 7, 8 and 9 are power word blind, stun and kill as they're supposed to be.)

    ---

    What level were you thinking of giving finger of death to death clerics? 7th is destruction, which I've implemented. 6th is below what wizards get it at, and I'm not wild about giving clerics early access to all sorts of wizard spells (that is, giving them more than they already get in the official rules). 8th is what druids get it at, but finger of death is actually a little less impressive than destruction, so the 8th level slot would be weaker than the 7th.

    6th and 8th level slots for death domain are supposed to actually be undead creation. I haven't got into it yet, but I think it may be possible to make decent such spells, so death domain may fill out all right.

    ---

    I'm not sure it's possible to polymorph things via scripts. And I don't know how the druid vestments work, but it's accessed by an existing wild shape ability which clerics/wizards wouldn't have. So I wouldn't get your hopes up there. Shapechange in particular is almost certainly impossible to implement correctly. It lets you choose a new shape every round for its duration.

    ---

    If you know of other existing spells that seem appropriate for holes in the domain lists, though, I'm open to suggestions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2011
  11. Forgalz

    Forgalz Established Member

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    That's not necessarily against the spirit of the rules, or does anyone find Magic Vestment more useful than Spiritual Weapon?
     
  12. dolio

    dolio Established Member

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    Well, those are two rather different spells. In this case, we have:

    Destruction: ranged save-or-die, 10d6 damage on a successful save
    Finger of Death: ranged save-or-die, 3d6+level damage on a successful save

    Technically the latter would be slightly better if put at level 8, because the save DC would be 1 higher. But the average damage is lower, for as much as anyone cares about that.

    Anyhow, ideally I can figure out a way to create cool undead, and this won't be an issue.
     
  13. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    On the druid vestment, the hill giant shape is not available unless you have the magic item, so something is working to allow that, just wondering if that scripting could be used for other spells, maybe even wizard's polymorphing.

    The specific summoning could make decent fill ins for several domains, plant could get some of those fungi, evil could gate in a demon.

    Anyway to get an Excel spreadsheet of the old and new domain spells so we can see where the holes are?
     
  14. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I think this stuff is gonna need to be RAW, guys - we shouldn't mix and match just to satisfy our urges to complete the list.

    Having a look at the SRD, this is what I see for domains as applies to ToEE:

    1st Level:

    Air: Obscuring Mist
    Animal: Calm Animals
    Chaos: Protection from Law
    Death: Cause Fear
    Destruction: Inflict Light Wounds
    Earth: Magic Stone
    Evil: Protection from Good
    Fire: Burning hands
    Good: Protection from Evil
    Healing: Cure Light Wounds
    Knowledge: Detect Secret Doors
    Law: Protection from Chaos
    Luck: Entropic Shield
    Magic: Magic Weapon (should be Magic Aura)
    Plant: Entangle
    Protection: Sanctuary
    Strength: Enlarge Person
    Sun: Endure Elements
    Travel: Longstrider
    Trickery: Invisibility to Undead (should be Disguise Self)
    War: Magic Weapon
    Water: Obscuring Mist

    2nd Level:

    Air: Wind Wall
    Animal: Hold Animal
    Chaos: Shatter
    Death: Death Knell
    Destruction: Shatter
    Earth: Soften Earth and Stone
    Evil: Desecrate
    Fire: Produce Flame
    Good: Aid
    Healing: Cure Moderate Wounds
    Knowledge: Detect Invisibility (should be Detect Thoughts)
    Law: Calm Emotions
    Luck: Aid
    Magic: Identify
    Plant: Barkskin
    Protection: Blur (should be Shield Other)
    Strength: Bull's Strength
    Sun: Heat Metal
    Travel: Bear's Endurance (should be Locate Object)
    Trickery: Invisibility
    War: Spiritual Weapon
    Water: Fog Cloud

    3rd Level:

    Air: Gaseous Form
    Animal: Dominate Animal
    Chaos: Magic Circle Against Law
    Death: Animate Dead
    Destruction: Contagion
    Earth: Meld into Stone (should be Stone Shape)
    Evil: Magic Circle against Good
    Fire: Resist Energy
    Good: Magic Circle against Evil
    Healing: Cure Serious Wounds
    Knowledge: Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
    Law: Magic Circle against Chaos
    Luck: Protection from Energy
    Magic: Dispel Magic
    Plant: Spike Growth (should be Plant Growth
    Protection: Protection from Energy
    Strength: Magic Vestment
    Sun: Searing Light
    Travel: Haste (should be Fly)
    Trickery: Suggestion* (should be Nondetection)
    War: Magic Vestment
    Water: Sleet Storm (should be Water Breathing)

    * certainly shouldn't be Dominate Monster

    4th Level:

    Air: Dispel Air (should be Air Walk)
    Animal: Summon Nature's Ally IV
    Chaos: Chaos Hammer
    Death: Death Ward
    Destruction: Inflict Critical Wounds
    Earth: Dispel Earth (should be Spike Stones)
    Evil: Unholy Blight
    Fire: Dispel Fire (should be Wall of Fire)
    Good: Holy Smite
    Healing: Cure Critical Wounds
    Knowledge: Discern Lies (should be Divination)
    Law: Order's Wrath
    Luck: Freedom of Movement
    Magic: Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser (should be Imbue with Spell Ability)
    Plant: Command Plants
    Protection: Otiluke's Resilient Sphere (should be Spell Immunity)
    Strength: Rage (should be Spell Immunity)
    Sun: Fire Shield
    Travel: Dimension Door
    Trickery: Confusion
    War: Divine Power
    Water: Dispel Water (should be Control Water)

    5th Level:

    Air: Chain Lightning (should be Control Winds)
    Animal: Animal Growth (should be Commune with Nature)
    Chaos: Dispel Law
    Death: Slay Living
    Destruction: Inflict Light Wounds, Mass
    Earth: Stoneskin (should be Wall of Stone)
    Evil: Dispel Good
    Fire: Fire Shield
    Good: Dispel Evil
    Healing: Cure Light Wounds, Mass
    Knowledge: True Seeing
    Law: Dispel Chaos
    Luck: Break Enchantment
    Magic: Spell Resistance
    Plant: Wall of Thorns (should be Blight)
    Protection: Spell Resistance
    Strength: Righteous Might
    Sun: Flame Strike
    Travel: Teleport
    Trickery: Mind Fog (should be False Vision)
    War: Flame Strike
    Water: Ice Storm

    6th Level

    Air: Chain Lightning (shouldn't be 5th)
    Animal:
    Chaos:
    Death:
    Destruction:
    Earth: Stoneskin (shouldn't be 5th)
    Evil:
    Fire:
    Good:
    Healing: Heal
    Knowledge:
    Law: Hold Monster
    Luck:
    Magic:
    Plant:
    Protection:
    Strength: Stoneskin (shouldn't be 5th)
    Sun:
    Travel:
    Trickery:
    War:
    Water: Cone of Cold

    7th Level

    Air:
    Animal:
    Chaos:
    Death:
    Destruction: Disintegrate
    Earth:
    Evil: Blasphemy
    Fire:
    Good: Holy Word
    Healing:
    Knowledge:
    Law:
    Luck:
    Magic:
    Plant:
    Protection:
    Strength:
    Sun:
    Travel:
    Trickery:
    War: Power Word Blind
    Water: Acid Fog

    8th Level

    Air:
    Animal: Summon Nature's Ally VIII
    Chaos:
    Death:
    Destruction:
    Earth:
    Evil:
    Fire:
    Good:
    Healing: Cure Critical Wounds, Mass
    Knowledge:
    Law:
    Luck:
    Magic:
    Plant: Control Plants (shouldn't be 4th)
    Protection:
    Strength:
    Sun:
    Travel:
    Trickery:
    War: Power Word Stun
    Water: Horrid Wilting

    9th Level

    Air:
    Animal:
    Chaos: Summon Monster IX
    Death:
    Destruction:
    Earth:
    Evil: Summon Monster IX
    Fire:
    Good: Summon Monster IX
    Healing: Heal, Mass
    Knowledge:
    Law: Summon Monster IX
    Luck: Miracle
    Magic:
    Plant:
    Protection:
    Strength:
    Sun:
    Travel:
    Trickery:
    War: Power Word Kill
    Water:
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2011
  15. dolio

    dolio Established Member

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    The online SRD has a list of all domain spells here:

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm

    I did a once-over of all the implemented spells, so if it's implemented, that domain spot is filled in game (unless its level was lowered by Troika). Also, it's probably safe to assume that all levels up to 5 are covered for every domain. The only exception is air, because I just moved chain lightning to 6th level.

    Skimming, I'd say elemental swarm is pretty easy. Dictum and word of chaos are just a matter of copying blasphemy/holy word. Undead creation spells of some sort are a maybe. Implosion is something I'll look into. Fire storm is a probably. Incendiary cloud is a maybe. Regenerate is doable, but probably not very good. Sunbeam is a maybe/partial. (Sunburst is implemented.) Greater teleport is useless.

    Others, we should probably be looking for a replacement (if that's decided to be acceptable), although it's possible I missed some.

    I understand if it's not acceptable to fill in the lists, too. If you want to go strictly by-the-rules, though, several existing domain spells will have to be removed, because Troika did fill in the lists in cases where the RAW spell is infeasible.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2011
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