Mod request

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Niels de Jong, May 1, 2022.

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  1. Niels de Jong

    Niels de Jong Member

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    So I have had received some really amazing help with my previous question, and as such I was wondering if anyone could help me with something else that has been bothering me? You see, I quite love Temple+ his mod that adds other races with level adjustments, but in my groups we always added the option to pick a feat that would lower your race its level adjustment by 1 (provided your race had a level adjustment).

    This of course did not affect the racial Hit Dice (if any), it just lowered your level adjustment score by 1 to help the Aasimar/Tiefling/Duergar races. These races are a little stronger than the others, but the bonuses they gain really don't make up for a level loss. As such all the groups that I played in added a feat that, once selected, lowered your Level Adjustment by 1, and which you could take multiple times if you were for example a drow or a Deep Gnome. A feat may not seem like much, but many builds rely on a combination of feats, so in the end having (for example) a drow player with this feat didn't feel that much more powerful then say a human that was able to reach his favored build much quicker.

    The idea is that you can either take this feat at character creation, lowering your level adjustment immediately, or you can take it as a standard feat (not fighter feat) at a higher level, and after selecting it you immediately gain 1 class level. Even with this feat, a Drow would still have to advance slower at the earlier levels as well as spend two entire feats on it, to make it more fair to the standard races.

    Would anyone be willing to make this as a mod? My groups all collectively named the feat "Level Adjustment Adjustment" for the fun of it, but you can of course pick whatever name you feei is most fitting. I hope I'm not being too forward by asking this, but if you could make this mod, or you perhaps know of someone else who could make it, then it would really complete the experience for me and others.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2022
  2. hammyh

    hammyh Established Member

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    Well, I think ToEE is fairly rigid towards 3.5 SRD standard and homebrew is typically avoided. There are a few lax rules, but otherwise...

    However, nothing says that you can't simulate this by taking a useless feat (for your build) and then just consoling xp every time you see it as needed for a level gain. Or create a normal human and give it extra stats. Although the drow magic resistance would not work this way.

    Personally, I highly disagree with this statement and would suggest that even ECL1 races would need many feats to equal the bonuses.
    Extra stats, besides the inherent leveling stats, are usually only EPIC feats. Further a single school of spell focus is not equivalent to a + 1 DC to all spells gained from a +2 stat and so on.
     
  3. Niels de Jong

    Niels de Jong Member

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    I actually agree with your last statement to an extend, but with regards to the Duergar and their -2 Charisma (even with all the great boons), it still feels a little underwhelming.

    Would a feat that reduces the level adjustment as mentioned above, but which you can only take once, sound more fair to you then? This way the very powerful races would still have to content with 1 or more levels of level adjustment, while the races like the Tiefling and the Duergar would be able to take the feat and level up like the other races? The Tiefling in particular feels like the level adjustment isn't warrented, and the Duergar has the -2 additional Charisma penalty, so they aren't as strong as some of the other options out there.
     
  4. hammyh

    hammyh Established Member

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    Well, iirc, Duergar get -4 Cha ... and small creatures in ToEE have reduced move base (20').

    But in addition to all dwarf base goodies, for only 1 ECL they get a bunch of extras:
    • immunity to poison and paralysis at start = not typically available until good items or spells that are not high duration until higher levels.
    • +2 saves vs spells (=1 feat)
    • enlarge + invis at the beginning 1/day (both these spells are actually really effective in ToEE)
    To simulate something similar in addition to normal dwarf bonuses would need:
    Iron will feat
    bunch of items

    I guess it depends on your point of view. And how much magic item help you expect to have or find.

    Edit: Otherwise...why would you take a Duegar over a standard Dwarf if you don't need those extras?
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2022
  5. Pygmy

    Pygmy Established Member Supporter

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    The Tiefling absolutely requires a +1 ECL as Martial Weapon Proficiency All allows entry to Eldritch Knight without spending a level on a martial class; Tiefling wizards enjoy +2 to intelligence and dexterity and don't care much about -2 charisma.
     
  6. Niels de Jong

    Niels de Jong Member

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    Well, mostly for thematics. I have been a huge fan of the Duergar for a while now. One of the very first races I played with my friends was one, and we didn't implement the level adjustment. Sure, I was a little stronger, but in practice it didn't feel like too much of a difference.

    As such I was hoping to ask if someone could make a feat for me which would lower your level adjustment by at least 1, and if that was possible if anyone would be willing to make that, for those that want to try out that option.
     
  7. Niels de Jong

    Niels de Jong Member

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    Plus that way a Drow player could also have a Level Adjustment of +1 at earlier level, so leveling up would be a little less punishing for them, especially for the earlier levels for ToEE. While simultaneously they would still need to give up a feat for that.
     
  8. hammyh

    hammyh Established Member

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    I'd counter that if only SR level+11 was available for 2 feats, for any character it would probably become the most popular feat tax in the entire game!
     
  9. Niels de Jong

    Niels de Jong Member

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    Even with you only being able to lower the Level Adjustment once? So you would always have level adjustment +1 as a Drow if you are willing to give up a feat.
     
  10. sigofmugmort

    sigofmugmort Established Member Supporter

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    What about using the Unearthed Arcana rules for "paying off" the level adjustment as a mod?
     
  11. Niels de Jong

    Niels de Jong Member

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    You mean this one?

    https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm

    I would love that as well, but I don't know how hard that would be to mod for someone. Having a feat you could select to reduce it by 1 step felt like it would be a simpler to mod solution.
     
  12. Sitra Achara

    Sitra Achara Senior Member

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    I think that might actually be relatively easy to add as a radial menu option which activates a negative level condition and reduces XP as appropriate.
     
  13. Niels de Jong

    Niels de Jong Member

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    I would love that as well, but I don't know how hard that would be to mod for someone.
    Honestly I would love to have that as well. Would you be willing to make that as a mod? Or perhaps you know of someone who could do that?
     
  14. Niels de Jong

    Niels de Jong Member

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    Or, perhaps we could combine these ideas? Instead of making this complicated, give only the Drow and Svirfneblin (so player races with Level adjustments above +1) a feat named Level Adjustment Adjustment that lowers their level adjustment by 1, as it is the most punishing for them. This would be a feat these two races would have to choose at character creation, and they can only take it once.

    Then, all races with a level adjustment (also the Drow and Svirfneblin) could gain the option to lower their level adjustment by 1, starting at 3rd class level. They can only do this once, and they have to spend 3000 XP to lower their level adjustment by 1. Spending XP this way will not reduce their class level of course, so they could only do this at certain XP intervals. So from 3rd to 4th class level, with a ECL of 4 for a Thiefling, she can only do so between having (6000+3000=) 9000 Xp and 9999 Xp, after which she becomes a 4th class level Tiefling. Or instead she could make the switch between 4th to 5th class level, between (10000+3000=) 13000 Xp and 14999 Xp etc. (unless it can be made so that you can't gain the same level twice?)

    How would something like that sound?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2022
  15. Niels de Jong

    Niels de Jong Member

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    Or, perhaps simpler, only give the Drow and Deep Gnome access to a feat that lowers their level adjustment by 1 (simplest would be to only grant this at character creation?) named "Underdark Survivalist", with the theme being that some Drow and Deep Gnomes are able to adept quicker than others of their kind in order to survive, which would let them lower their level adjustment by 1 so that they can level up more quickly.

    Then, starting at 3rd class level, any race with a level adjustment can lower their level adjustment by 1 step (but only once) by giving up 3000 XP, which disappear, but doing will immediately increase your class level by 1 level after lowering your level adjustment by 1.

    This would be the simplest solution I think.
     
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