Was wondering if anyone else is like me and prefers to include some NPCs as more or less permanent members to their party in ToEE? I'm always looking for a few new angles for a different "feel" to the game. Here are a few things I found out about NPCs: Burne Normally, if Burne is in your party and you loot the Golden Orb from Falrinth's 2nd chest, as soon as you exit from level 3 of the Temple a dialogue will come up saying Burne returns to his tower in Hommlet and is no longer hirable as an NPC. This however, is only the case if an active PC holds the Orb in their inventory. You can instead loot the Orb to an NPC (even give it to Burne to keep), and Burne will no longer leave the party (in my game, I gave the Orb to Otis). That NPC can even use the orb in combat without activating Burne's quit dialogue. Apparently the presence of the Orb just bothers Burne if an active PC wants to use it. Other than the Orb dialogue activating, Burne can freely leave and rejoin to the party as often as desired, even staying on into Verbobonc. Otis Normally Otis is hard-coded to leave the party each time you return to Nulb. The first time he leaves, you can have him rejoin for free, but the second time he leaves, he leaves for good. Of course you could always just never go back to Nulb and he would never leave your party. But sometimes you might want to go back if you have unfinished business in Nulb, but otherwise hesitate because you don't want to lose Otis's services. Well, if you attack a "good" aligned NPC anywhere in the Temple (let's say by casting a Charm spell on the concubine Paida for example, or knocking her unconcious) Otis will turn hostile and leave the party. If you then successfully cast a charm spell on hostile Otis, he rejoins as a follower (AI controlled) rather than an active NPC. As soon as the charm wears off (hang out in Wonilon's Hideout as long as needed, or march back-and-forth to Hommlet a few times), Otis will go back to Nulb on his own AND FORGET HE WAS EVER HIRED A SECOND TIME. So you can basically return to Nulb and rehire him (getting the same dialogue as before saying he will only go with you one more time). Btw, Paida also returns to the location where you found her in the Temple once her charm spell wears off, and forgets she ever even met you. So no harm done. You can use the above described technique to "fire/rehire" Otis from/to the party as often as you like. Domination I've had a lot of fun making up interesting parties using the 5th level arcane spell Dominate Person, which will fill one of the 3 available NPC slots for the duration of the spell. By the time you can cast it, the spell should last well over 120000 game-rounds, or roughly 10 days of game time. Have a new Domination spell ready if you want to "re-add" the same character once the spell wears off. Otherwise, they return to where you originally found them (with any equipment and extra exp they happen to get). Alternatively, if you talk to Jaroo about Spell Permanency and then click on a dominated NPC, they become permanent members of your party as well. You should, however, be aware that ALL non-joinable NPCs lack a 'dismiss' dialogue option. So if you permanently join them, the only way to dismiss them again is if they die. Some NPC's dialogues are hard-scripted to end in combat. If you talk to such an NPC while Dominated, they themselves won't turn hostile, but other nearby NPCs not belonging to your party might. Other NPC's dialogues are hard-scripted to cause them to leave the game permanently, which they will do even if dominated. Falrinth is pretty OP to have join the party, with god-like ability stats and his Magic Missile spells seem to generate 25 missiles instead of being limited to 5. Senshock is the only NPC I have ever found yet that actually has craft Wands and Wonderous Items feats when you get him. His level is so high, though, that he gains exp fairly slowly in the vanilla half of ToEE. Ranos Davl is open for extreme cash flow abuse. While Murraya is in the party, none of the evil denizens in the game will initiate non-scripted combat, which basically opens up lots of possibilities for abuse against non-bosses, but I still see it as legitimate roleplay (everyone knows she is the concubine of the Greater Temple's head priest). If one of the Lesser Temple priests is in your party, then good-aligned NPCs such as Otis can turn hostile in the towns. On a side note, Senshock had a Mage Armor spell active when I charmed him, and it was the first time I noticed that Mage Armor is NOT compatible with Bracers of Defence. Yikes! Very bad news for Wizards! Some of the normally non-hrable NPC stats ppl might find interesting: Calmert - lvl 10 Cleric Domains: Healing Feats: Cleave, Combat Casting, Great Cleave, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Turn Undead S20 D18 C18 I14 W18 Ch14 Good-aligned NPCs won't agree to attempt to dominate Calmert, and will leave the group if someone else does. Getting out of the Temple of St Cuthbert alive after launching such an attack without a Teleportation spell will be difficult, as Turjon joins in as well. Turjon - lvl 20 (Cleric 10/ Palladin 7/ Fighter 3) Domains: Law, Protection Feats: Alertness, Cleave, Great Cleave, Combat Casting, weapon Specialization Light Mace, Weapon Focus Light Mace, Greater Weapon Focus Light Mace, Improved Critical Light Mace, Power Attack, Toughness, Layon Hands, Smite Evil, Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Divine Grace, Turn Undead S20 D18 C18 I18 W18 Ch18 Turjon has both spell resistance and an extremely high (+18) Will save bonus, making it nigh impossible to dominate him in battle. With stats like his, he is obviously shooting for being elevated to the status of a minor deity sometime in the near future. Ranos Davl - lvl 10 Rogue Feats: Dodge, Improved Initiative, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Weapons Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Evasion, Sneak Attack, Trap Finding, Crippling Strike, Skill Mastery Skills: Disable Device 13, Gather info 11, Hide 18, Listen 12, Move Silently 18, Open Locks 15, Sleight of Hand 18, Search 15, Spot 12, Tumble 18 S8 D18 C14 I14 W8 Ch6 If you barter with Ranos Davl while he is in your party, any goods you sell to him are transferred to his inventory. You can then transfer said item from Ranos Davl's inventory to another PC per normal... and sell it back to Ranos Davl again! Bad, bad, bad exploit. Kelno - lvl 5 Cleric Domains: Evil, Air Feats: Combat Casting, Spell Focus Necromancy, Greater Spell Focus Necromancy S15 D17 C12 I12 W14 Ch12 Alrrem - lvl 9 Cleric Domains: Evil, War Feats: Combat Casting, Improved Initiative, Spell Focus Evocation, Greater Spell Focus Evocation, Weapon Focus Warhammer, Martial Weapon Proficiency Warhammer, Skill Focus Concentration S16 D14 C12 I12 W18 Ch10 Belsornig - lvl 8 Cleric Domains: Evil, Water Feats: Combat Casting, Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus Light Mace S14 D18 C16 I16 W16 Ch14 Romag - lvl 6 Cleric Domains: none Feats: Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Spell Focus Enchant, Greater Spell Focus Enchant, Shield Proficiency, Light Weap Proficiency, Armor Proficiency Hvy/Med/Lght S14 D14 C14 I10 W22 Ch12 Smigmal Redhand - lvl 13 Rogue Feats: Cleave, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Evasion, Improved Evasion, Sneak Attack, Crippling Strike, Trap Finding, Skill Mastery S20 D16 C18 I12 W10 Ch12 The first time you talk to Smigmal, she disappears from your party (ie. pretends to escape the temple), although if she has already been dominated, a blue circle will remain as a place-filler for her to come back to. Thereafter if you re-enter the secret passage adjoining her chamber she reappears (or reappears in your party if she had already been dominated before) along with 2 of her assassin henchwomen. Each time you subsequently talk to her in this area, 2 more assassins appear in her chamber. Smigmal's 2nd dialogue is hard-scripted to end in combat. Assasin - lvl 10 Rogue Feats: Improved Initiative, 2-Weapon Fighting, Improved 2-Weapon Fighting, 2-Weapon Defense, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Weapon Finesse, Evasion, Sneak Attack, Crippling Strike, Trap Finding, Simple Weapon Proficiency S10 D20 C16 I12 W10 Ch8 Smigmal's bodyguards. Two of them will appear in her chamber (fully geared up with magic items) each time you talk to Smigmal. Falrinth - lvl 10 Wizard Feats: Alertness, Combat Casting, Dodge, Spell Focus Transmutation, Greater Spell Focus Transmutation, Spell Focus Conjuration, Scribe Scroll S14 D22 C18 I18 W18 CH22 Spells: 1st Burning Hands, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Charm Person 2nd Melf’s Acid Arrow, Cat’s Grace, Fox’s Cunning 3rd Heroism, Hold Person, Fireball 4th Phantasmal Killer, Charm Monster, Shout 5th Summon Monster V Falrinth somehow knows a 5th lvl Domain spell Cone of Cold that only does 1 pt of damage, and his Magic Missile spells generate 25 missiles each rather than 5 (but only if all 5 "normal" attacks are aimed towards 1 target). Ditto if he reads MM from a scroll. On very rare occasions, I've seen Falrinth turn hostile in combat, but I am not sure what triggers it. Murraya (Curry Leaf) - Lvl 8 Monk Feats: Combat Expertise, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Stunning Fist, Wholeness of Body, Flurry of Blows, Fast Movement, Evasion, Still Mind, Purity of Body, Ki Strike S12 D16 C12 I10 W18 Ch18 Murraya hangs out with Paida in Hedrack's bedchambers. Non-scripted monsters will not attack your party if they can 'see' Murraya with you when you first encounter them. Senshock - Lvl 11 Wizard Feats: Combat Casting, Craft Wand, Craft Wonderous Item, Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus Enchant, Greater Spell Focus Enchant, Spell Focus Concentration, Spell Penetration Spells: 1st Magic Missile, Mage Armor 2nd See Invisibility, Tasha’s Hideous Laughter, False Life 3rd Deep Slumber, Lightning Bolt, Dispel Magic 4th Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Charm Monster, Stoneskin, Phantasmal Killer 5th Dominate Person 6th Disintegrate S10 D16 C14 I20 W14 Ch12 Senshock's dialogue is scripted to initiate combat. Barkinar - Lvl 7 Cleric - HP 65 Domains: Evil, Protection Feats: Combat Casting, Alertness, Improved Initiative, Toughness S14 D10 C16 I16 W16 Ch8 Barkinar is Senshock's clerical henchman. Countess Tillahi - Lvl 7 Elf (Fighter 4 / Wizard 3) Feats: Alertness, Combat Casting, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Scribe Scroll, Shield Proficiency, Spell Penetration, Martial Weapons Proficiency All, Call Familiar Spells: Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Melf's Acid Arrow, Mirror Image S14 D20 C8 I16 W10 Ch12 Tillahi is being held prisoner in Temple level 2. If you Dominate her rather than talk to her, she will join your group. If you ever talk to her, she will leave permanently, but in doing so will thus trigger the reward. Sir Juffer - Lvl 6 Elf (Ranger 3/ Cleric 3) Domains: none ??? Feats: Alertness, Combat Casting, Improved Initiative, Shield Proficiency, Track, Martial Weapon Proficiency All, Two Weapon Fighting Ranger, Two Weapon Fighting Style, Favored Enemy Humanoid Human S14 D18 C10 I10 W16 Ch14 Sir Juffer is Tillahi's elf companion. He leaves your group permanently if you talk to him after talking to Countess Tillahi. Jenna and Tenafir - Lvl 0 (can still choose their class) HP 7 Feats: Improved Initiative, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Toughness S10 D10 C10 I10 W10 Ch10 These two are the female prisoners held on Temple level 1. If you talk to either of them and 'set them free' they leave the party forever. No reason to have either join really, but here are their stats. Chanda - Lvl 1 Elf Cleric HP 7 Domains: None ??? Feats: Combat Casting, Shield Proficiency, Simple Weapon Proficiency Elf, Amor Proficiency Hvy/Med/Lght S12 D14 C8 I10 W14 Ch10 Chanda is the female elven prisoner who refuses to talk to you in the Moathouse Tower. If you ever talk to Nybble in the Moathouse, Chanda will leave the group permanently. I'm not sure what happens if she is in your party when you meet her once again in Verbobonc (I assume the game has 2 Chanda NPCs?). Alira - Lvl 3 Fighter Feats: Weapon Focus Longsword, Cleave, Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack S14 D12 C14 I12 W8 Ch12 Alira is one of the patrons at the Waterside Hostel in Nulb who sectretly works for the Temple. Ikian - Lvl 5 Cleric Domains: Good, Luck Feats: Alertness, Extra Turning, Improved Initiative, Turn Undead Items: +1 Magic Mace, +1 Magic Shield, Full Plate S14 D8 C14 I12 W18 Ch14 Ikian is only ever met through the Easter-Egg overland encounter with the Adventurers. Neukoln - lvl 5 Elven Ranger Feats: Improved Initiative, Track, 2-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus Longsword, Favored Enemy Humanoid Goblinoid, Favored Enemy Humanoid Human, Animal Companion, Martial Weapon Proficiency All Items: +1 Magic Leather Armor, Longsword +1, Swortsword +1 S14 D18 C10 I10 W14 Ch12 Neukoln is only ever met through the Easter-Egg overland encounter with the Adventurers. Ogavik - lvl 5 Dwarven Fighter Feats: Cleave, Great Fortitude, Power Attack, Weapon Focus Warhammer, Weapon Specialization Warhammer, Martial Weapon Proficiency All Items: Warhammer +1, Red Chainmail S18 D12 C16 I W8 Ch Ogavik is only ever met through the Easter-Egg overland encounter with the Adventurers. Vincent Visionmaker - lvl 5 Wizard Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Spell Focus Evocation, Scribe Scroll, Call Familiar Spells: 1st Mage Armor, Magic Missile, shield 2nd Mirror Image, Summon Monster II, Web 3rd Fireball, Deep Slumber Items: Ring of Protection +1, Wand of Tashas Hideous Laughter S8 D14 C12 I16 W12 Ch14 Vincent is only ever met through the Easter-Egg overland encounter with the Adventurers. Non - lvl 5 Halfling Rogue Feats: Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus Short Sword, Incanny Dodge, Evasion, Sneak Attack, Trap Finding Items: Magic Leather Armor +1, Shortsword S10 D18 C12 I14 W8 Ch12 Non is only ever met through the Easter-Egg overland encounter with the Adventurers.
If they die whilst dominated and you raise them back to life, they will become permanent members of your party.
Hi Dreamteam, Have you had a chance to look at The TOEE GAME GUIDE AND WALKTHROUGH? Section 1.22 has quite a bit of interesting information on recruitable NPC's.
Yes, I have read most of it quite thoroughly at one point or another, although I am still working my way through Verbobonc, so I don't want to spoil it by reading too far. Gazra did a great job putting all that info together in one thread. I regularly consult the section 1.22 about NPCs in fact, when I am planning out my strategy for who I want to take with me to infiltrate the Temple. But I had never seen any commentary on how to keep Burne or Otis as permanent members to the party (it's kind of an exploit after all), nor anything about the stats of NPCs that are not usually hirable (the walkthrough part of the guide lists their lootable items, combat bonuses and hp, but no physical attributes, feats nor spell knowledge). Most people will probably realize fairly quickly they can bolster the numbers of their party temporarily by using the charm spells, but it took me a few play throughs to really appreciate the possibilities brought to the table by the domination spells. I can easily imagine in a PnP game how this could unfold and affect the story arc: What happens when a charmed Romag is asked to attack his own temple followers? If you charm the lead cleric, wouldn't you then have all the resources of his temple at your disposal to attack the others? It could be open warfare as the charmed leaders of the Lesser Temples make a bid to storm the Greater Temple, etc. etc. To me, one of the strengths of ToEE is the many choices you have on how to proceed with the adventure. So I thought this thread was breaking some new ground. My one wish is that the Co8 mod had added a lootable scroll of Dominate Person somewhere in the pre-Verbobonc game, so you wouldn't have to wait for a lvl 9 Wizard to be able to take advantage of the full compliment of "alternative" NPCs. Sorry if all this has been discussed somewhere else.
Thank you very much for all of the information that you provided in this thread, Dreamteam. It made for fascinating reading. I will update the game guide accordingly when I get free time. I always prefer to play these computer games with as many NPCs in my party as possible. My adventuring party always consists of 3 PCs and 5 NPCs. I now look forward to having Burne stay in my party all the way to the end of the game in my next playthrough. The tool ToEE World Builder (which is available at http://www.co8.org/forum/showpost.php?p=25776&postcount=1) allows you to examine all of the stats of any critter (NPC, animal, or monster) in the game. When using ToEE World Builder, just keep in mind that the attribute numbers (ability scores) (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma) listed in a critter's proto are modified by any racial modifiers to determine the critter's actual attributes, and the skill numbers listed in a critter's proto are modified by the critter's class (if any) to determine the critter's actual skill ranks (i.e. whether they are class skills, or whether they are cross-class skills which actually have half the listed skill ranks). Having Paida in your party causes all normally hostile NPCs/monsters to not attack your party on sight. In other words, having Paida in your party breaks the game! If what you say is true, then Murraya causes exactly the same problem. I no longer have the passion to include all of the stats of all of the NPCs/monsters in the entire game in my game guide. If you or anybody else wants to do the work, then by all means.
A few of the new random encounters are still hostile, even with Paida in the party. I can't remember which ones, though.
I'm not so sure about Paida, but I have done some extensive playtesting with Murraya in the party (dominated). It's not quite so simple as her just being in the party causes monsters to not attack. They actually have to SEE her during the initial encounter. So when Murraya is in the party, for example, and your PC scouts ahead alone and gets jumped by monsters, they will attack normally. But if the same encounter happened with Murraya in sight of the monsters, they would remain peaceful. A nice touch that it actually works that way, imo. Once the initial encounter results are determined, it seems to apply as long as you don't leave the level. So in the second example above, your group could leave the area and come back later, and your PC could approach the monsters alone now and they would remain peaceful even if Murraya isn't in sight. Also, scripted battles that result from dialogues with NPCs seem to take place normally, regardless of the presence of Murraya (mostly). Senshock's group will attack you when you talk to him, Hendrick's forces will turn hostile if you don't talk your way out of it, etc. But strangely the Node Guardians don't become hostile at the end of their dialogues unless you attack them first. Don't know how Zuggtmoy reacts to Murraya, but my guess is the encounter will unfold as normal, since it is entirely scripted. @Gazra - I'm a little hesitant to go probing through my game files with an editor, since I really don't know what I'm doing. So far I've managed to get the info just by casting the spell and looking at the NPCs inventory window, then reverse-calculating the abilities according to skill and to-hit bonuses, etc. So technically some of the values I listed above might be 1 point too low, since I always assumed the lowest-valued attribute that would give the equivalent bonus. Some of the missing NPCs I still plan on checking out are Romag, Smigmal Redhand and possibly her assassin helpers (she died in my current save unfortunately), the random band of Adventurers, Countess Tilahii's or Prince Thromell's messengers, Turjon or any other seemingly high-level NPC that you normally can't hire.
Dreamteam, please don't take my comment as an attempt to put a stop to your musings, I too have found them to be quite informative. I was merely offering another source of data to compliment your own findings.
I also noticed if you talk to Jaroo about Spell Permanency and then click on a dominated live NPC, they become permanent members of your group. @Sirchet - No problems. I'm glad to hear the thread has brought some further insights! EDIT: I finally managed to dominate Turjon, but it took a lvl 14 Bard specialized in Enchantment Focus and Spell Penetration! EDIT2: Turjon's portrait looks to me like it's Edward Norton wearing a Hitler mustache EDIT3: When dominated, Ranos Davl will buy anything from you and put it in his inventory, then you can 'give-transfer' that same item to someone else in the party, and sell it to him again! He seems to have an unlimited supply of gold.
K. I've edited in a lot of stats in my OP. That about wraps it up I think for the NPCs in the pre-Verbobonc part of the game I had been curious about. If anyone dominates another NPC they think is worth mentioning, let me know and I can edit it into the list.
Some of the debilitating spells can prove very valuable when attempting to charm/dominate a high level NPC.
