We've started discussing this in the general commentary thread, but it's kind of trailed off and wasn't continued. Background: Troika/Cain games have always featured unique responses for low INT characters. The implemenetation in vanilla ToEE: reworded PC responses; functionally identical to high INT replies, with only a few flavour exceptions. Recent modding by Gaear has had low INT dialogue removed in some dialogues. The issue: Should Low INT dialogue be supported? If so, to what extent and in what fashion? Arguments in favour: A staple of Troika/Cain games. It's featured throughout the original game. Removing it in some cases and not others (as is the nature of modding dialogue) results in inconsistency. It makes more sense that low INT characters speak like that. For some, it's funny. Some like them. Arguments against: It makes modding harder and more timeconsuming (in its present form). There are switchup and missing reply bugs as a result. Sometimes it takes up 'real estate space' that can be used for other dialogue nodes. People rarely use low INT frontmen anyway. Some don't find them funny. Some don't like them. All the for/against arguments have obvious counter arguments, counter-counter arguments and so forth, I'll leave it up to you to think them up. In the end it's a matter of preference - what do people want? (mod users and modders as well) Also, as mentioned, there's also the question of implementation. Assuming we choose to have it in, possibilities include: Same as vanilla - mirror the high INT text. Vanilla + more special dialogue nodes - e.g. like the female only nodes, or Burne's bunny story. Highly restricted - low INT characters become drooling morons, with only plot critical dialogue available to them. Highly restricted + special nodes - same as above, but with the occasional special branch for low INT characters (humorous or even beneficial) Whatever strikes the modder's fancy at the time... Other propositions? So, what do you say?
Hey, I got the first vote. Remove it everywhere. It's nonsense that wastes data/memory space and serves no useful purpose.
I should point out that removing it everywhere entails going through every dialogue and erasing things, making it very labor intensive as well. Memory space isn't an issue, it's the dialogue node real estate that's more important. (occasionally the dialogue is too crowded to add new PC responses). But even then it's hardly something you can't circumvent when required (though it obviously takes some work).
Which makes it a mighty undertaking you've put your hand up for - thanks Sitra! :wave: You're right about the current inconsistent situation being sub-optimal though: I guess we need one or the other. I'll agree with George and say just get rid of it.
I'm not sure how I want to vote yet. I'd like to keep them, but remove them when the modders need to do so. Perhaps in those cases the dummy just speaks "Duh! Me forget what to say." (Yes, that would mean to recommend that at least 1 of the half-orc barbarians have at least an 8 INT to have full dialog options). Edit: What do you mean by "mirroring high INT dialog?
Keep it. My moron half-Orc Barbarian amuses me. Besides, it is a Troika feature that I enjoy and helps their games standout (ever play VTMB as a a Malkavian?).
I vote to keep it too, furthermore dialogues that do NOT have low intelligence responces should have them added. The Co8 group have been fixing ToEE since it was released, and I was under the impression that fixing the stuff that is broken is more important than adding new content (which as we all know has messed up the game ballance), and actually removing Troika content seems to me like a slap across the faces of the developers.
That's a good point. I am new here. But I don't get REMOVING content. I thought we were here because we love the game and Troika, and wanted to see ToEE realize its full potential.
That's why I think #4 is a good compromise. And all in all, I see people are generally in favor of low INT dialogue, with the majority in favour of #4. So I think the guidelines should be as follows: Idiot characters don't speak the same way as ordinary people Replies can be one word grunts and such, a la Fallout Investigation, blackmail, arguments, etc (anything requiring cognitive capacity) is blocked off ...thus greatly reducing the workload Cheap laughs for all
Funny, my own opinion is that keeping in such drivel as the low INT dialog would be about as much a slap in the face as keeping in all their bugs, but to each his own. I haven't voted in this poll, since I figured my vote wouldn't exactly be unfettered by other considerations, but if I had it would have been for option 1. That would have tilted the balance to 6 generally in favor and 3 generally not in favor - hardly a landslide decision ... and certainly not statistically significant when compared against the number of people who actually play the mod (in the thousands). BUT, you guys - Sitra in particular, since you're championing the effort - should feel free to restore any low INT dialog that you like. (This type of freedom of involvement has always been the operating condition here at Co8, and I'm not exactly on the muscle about keeping it out anyway.) I don't intend to restore any of it myself though, since I've got a lot more pressing issues on my plate, but I will refrain from eliminating any further low INT stuff out of consideration to you.
I voted other because I would like to see a low Wisdom option- low Intelligence indicates a lack of cognoscente thought and thereby no or limited response options (which could quickly become boring)- low Wisdom gives you Groo the Wanderer...
