List of underwhelming creatures

I was reading the phase spider description recently, and realized it's a pretty tricky encounter. They have the following powers:

1. Can shift to the ethereal plane as (part of) a move action
2. Can shift back to the material plane as a free action each round

This essentially means (with appropriate AI) they're only vulnerable during their own turn, unless you can see ethereal creatures and have something like magic missile that can actually hit them. I think the only way you can defeat one normally is to ready actions for when they become material.

Anyhow, needless to say, this isn't implemented in ToEE. I looked to see if one was in the protos, and there is, possibly added by Co8. But it's just a spider with Blink, which is about the best you can do in the vanilla engine.

I'm interested in unique mechanics like this, and adding support for them in Temple+. I think they could add interesting flavor to the game. I know of some other examples, but I haven't played all the way through the game in a while, so I'd be interested if anyone knows of examples I've missed.

Of course, I can't promise to implement everything that's missing. Especially abilities that just initiate normal grapples require significant additions (animations and stuff) that aren't easy to accomplish.

Here's my list:

• Phase spiders don't have their hit-and-hide tactics
• Giants can't throw rocks at you
• Djinni and air elementals can't turn into a whirlwind
• Gorgons and basilisks don't really turn you to stone
• Various oozes don't damage your gear, and some lack their ambush-like properties
• Demons can't teleport around the battlefield (missing lots of at will spell-like abilities in general)
• Most things with grappling abilities don't have them (like I said, most probably won't happen)

Are there any others? What enemies should have been scarier/cooler than they actually are in the game?

 

No energy draining undead
No Lycanthropy
The unavoidable consequence of playing a 2003 game that monster (especially arcane spellcaster) behaviour isn't controlled by Today's AI

 

Sounds like great use cases for Dimensional Anchor (which is currently useless in ToEE).

Pretty sure they can if they have it in inventory. At least one of those who are on Temple level 4 (that room with 3 hill giants with chests behind) throws his giant rock.

 

There's none of these? They have the conditions for being energy drained. I could have sworn you could get them somehow.

Yeah, that would work, too. For the spiders, it seems like you'd still have to catch it during its turn, still, or it'd be stuck in ethereal mode instead (although I guess that lets you blast it with magic missiles with impunity if you're able).

Oh, cool. I didn't know about that. I was thinking that would be one of the easier ones, because it 'just' requires making an appropriate rock weapon.

I guess my question is, can the player also throw the rocks hundreds of feet? I'll have to check it out.

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Oh yeah, and I'd thought about lycanthropy as well, because there's those two werewolves in the temple. It's very complicated and 'story driven,' though. Like, you'd want something like... if you sleep in Hommlet or Nulb during the right time, one of the villagers gets mauled, and people are talking about it. But that's like a mini mod project in itself.

You could actually explain the lack of contracting lycanthropy by the temple werewolves being afflicted. Only natural lycanthropes can transmit lycanthropy, at least in 3.5E. It's kind of boring, but so much of the interesting part is way beyond just implementing the stat effects (which probably wouldn't be that difficult).

 

There is at least one good use of dimensional anchor and it is on Shenshock fight to avoid him teleporting away. [Iirc]

Also the other wizard too (Falrinth?).

 

But first thing to make monsters more challenging is to simply remove the swords of answering. These make the game pointless Imho.
I sell them immediately - avoids temptation

 

Various oozes don't damage your gear, and some lack their ambush-like properties

This is a big one. So many lvl4 oozes should do so including Zuggy battle. It should really make you plan for some grief.

____
All the elementals miss special attacks. Looking at Srd:

earth have push = push opponent away
Fire have burn radius.

Even with Pfe cheese, these should work.

 

I've tried figuring out how bull rushing might be added. There are some animations for it, but when I tried making use of some 'knock back' animations that are already there, they just didn't work (I forget exactly what happened, but probably crashed or something).

And yeah, I'd like to implement fire elementals setting you on fire and burning your scrolls or whatever.

 

If any or all of these could ne implemented...it would add new challenges to the game.

 

Pretty sure I've had a giant throw a rock at me once on level 4 of the temple. Unfortunately, 3 hill giants against a 10-12th level party in small room isn't a huge problem, whether they are throwing rocks to hitting you with mauls: they'll be dead in a couple of rounds. A dozen rocks to every giant in Hickory Branch might be a different story...

RE energy-draining undead: sure I've seen it too somewhere. Is there a spell in the game that has this effect?

Actual flight, rather than hovering rather ponderously well within reach (I imagine this would either be impossible in the current game engine, or at the very least require 're-blocking' of accessible areas in certain maps).

 

Yeah, I found the place with the giants. From what I can tell, one of them has a single rock that they throw at you. For some reason the rock doesn't show up in the Temple+ DM under the possible weapons (I think). The rock is too big for a normal PC to equip. One thing I might be able to fix about it is that the projectile looks like a sling bullet when thrown. I think it should be possible for it to actually look like the rock model, although I don't know how off hand.

In Temple+ there is Enervation and Energy Drain that add negative levels. Long ago I wrote the scripts for possible inclusion in Co8, but the problem was that negative levels instantly kill any enemy without class levels, so they'd be way better than they're supposed to be. That bug is fixed in Temple+, so they work as intended. I don't think they're in the base game for that reason, though.

And yeah, I don't think actual flying is in the cards. It'd require extensive work at the very least. It's one thing I think is really cool about Solasta.

 

If I recall, their gaze attacks go through walls.

At least I had this trouble in Paladin's Cove.

Is there a way to prevent this? If there is no LOS, then how can their gaze attack affect me?

Is this a Cove module issue, or does this also happen in ToEE?

 

There are ways to check line of sight. I don't know exactly how well it works with regard to various obstacles. To me it seems like the targeting does account for some of this, so for an area effect like the gorgon, I would expect it to happen somewhat automatically.

Was it a basilisk or gorgon? Gorgons actually have a breath attack, not a gaze. When I control NPCs, it seems like I can't target through walls with a basilisk, but the gorgon's breath does go through walls. I don't think it's supposed to, but I'm not exactly sure why it does, off hand, because the people affected through walls don't get selected during targeting.

The basilisk is another example of something that could be more complicated, play wise, but I'm uncertain how best to handle it. Right now it has one active gaze 'spell.' But gazes are actually supposed to be like a passive aura, too. And you can take measures to avoid gazes, but incur penalties to do so.

 

In the Cove module is was a group of basilisk.

When I get a chance, I'll reload the saved game and make a screenshot.