Let's Make Elmo a Ranger

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Cujo, Jun 24, 2007.

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  1. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    Re: About Elmo

    At the risk of sounding like 0rion, why can't we make Elmo a ranger? he's obviously a first edition ranger ...

    ... but he's also good at appearing how he isn't.

    This is how I see it.
    If he was a third edition ranger he would no longer be proficient in chainmail armour (unless said armour happened to be mithral) and his special ranger ablities would be wasted - using an axe and shield means that TWF or archery styles are out (altho first edition rangers did get these things anyway AFAIK), unless he had improved shield bash in which case he would TWF with his axe and shield.

    He would be missing out on all the fighter feats (while keeping his BAB bonus) but then as a first edition ranger he wouldn't be quite as good at melee as a first edition fighter either, what with what seems to be a lower BAB bonus. IMO changing his armour and keeping/making him a ranger wouldn't be a particularly bad thing.
     
  2. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    Re: About Elmo

    Well, would it be worth the effort to do all that, or could we just make him as close as possible with the 3.5 rules? He asks for an axe & chain mail so he can substitute his own magical equipment, which wouldn't be detectable as anything special without a spell or something. The whole man-at-arms guise is really his secret agent 'cover', and while he might have special ranger abilities, he'd probably not use them to keep up the Clark Kent routine. In combat, he'd be a super-man-at-arms being 4th level & all. You'd have to be dense not to notice he's whacking the shit out of people & things with that axe. My vote is make him the ranger, but 3.5 compliant, and see how it goes. It can be fine tuned after some play testing.
     
  3. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Re: About Elmo

    Nah - but he does change into his new gear when u hire him, as you probably noticed.

    I would be inclined to make Elmo an archery specialist with his silver arrows. May seem bizarre, but he does apparently have a bow (that only looks half like my version of T1 - a later revision perhaps) and it lets him keep his 'drunk with a big axe' persona. Of course he'll never use the damn bow...

    We either lose his module persona or his 3.5 compliance, I don't see they are that all that compatible. I like him the way he is because he does seem like the module described (other than never giving up the drunk thing) and I used to get annoyed that 0rion wanted to screw with a much-loved character just for mindless rules compliance. But at least we are talking about it now and not just having a fait accompli foisted upon us. If folks can come up with a good 3.5 build I won't mind.
     
  4. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    Re: About Elmo

    I can't remember which supliment its in, but there is a mithral chainmail made specifically for rangers which would suit elmo if we were to change his class.
     
  5. maggit

    maggit Zombie RipTorn Wonka

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    Re: About Elmo

    You can always give him medium armour proficiency,
    as a feat at his 1st level. On the other hand, the players
    would know that he's a ranger, since he can track, cast
    spells and wear only light armour.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2007
  6. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    Re: About Elmo

    but as an first addition ranger he would've also been able to track and cast spells.
     
  7. maggit

    maggit Zombie RipTorn Wonka

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    Re: About Elmo

    I agree, but then in PnP, the GM would control him, wouldn't he?




    GM=Game Master I think it's the term used in Warhammer. :p
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2007
  8. Zebedee

    Zebedee Veteran Member Veteran

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    Re: About Elmo

    Would 3 levels of ranj0r and 1 level of fighter be a frightful mess?
     
  9. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    Re: About Elmo

    maggit's right about the "GM" controlling him. In PnP, he'd never get to the level where he could cast spells, so it wouldn't matter (first level druid spells at level 8). Besides, once he's been their ally for that long, he'd probably let down his guard a little, and tell the pc's something of his background...if they didn't catch on before then. If he didn't trust them, he'd quit the party before something bad happened to him. Being a CG ranger, he'd leave the party to whatever fate awaited them in the Temple. If the party is good, he'd refer them to Otis & go back to Hommlet.

    1st edition rangers can use any weapon, but they had to choose from a list of weapons to take for their class once the UA was released in 1985:

    Any type of Sword
    Bow or a Light Crossbow
    Hand Axe or Spear
    Dagger or a Knife

    They were also allowed to become specialists (but didn't HAVE to be), and were compelled to pick between missile or sword; the origins of the path as it is now. Elmo's Axe looks like a Hand Axe to me, but it was a Battle Axe for certain in the module - which, btw, was written before the changes to the ranger class. So - it's up to us to decide what his future will be. IMO, we need to worry more about his story line rather than his class. Can we keep him a ranger until he gains a level, then force a choice between staying or going depending on overall party alignment? If he stays, then he'll level as a ranger- if he goes, then no one need worry any further.
     
  10. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Re: About Elmo

    Agree entirely. I don't particularly care what he calls himself; regardless, he's going to end up being the guy with the axe who kicks ass for lower level parties.

    The idea of making him a 'run-off' NPC (like Otis) at a certain point is a very interesting one. This could perhaps occur at the point where you first meet Otis in Nulb? By Spike's account of the module, this would be around when he'd hand you off to Otis anyway, his responsibilities with overseeing Moathouse adventurers being complete. This would also have the added benefit of players not developing an uber-Elmo for higher-level adventuring in the temple, not to mention adding some semblance of autonomy for him. And it would encourage people to experiment more with other NPCs. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2007
  11. Fernando

    Fernando Established Member

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    I like the idea of Elmo running off in Nulb, just as you speak with Otis. It sounds like it could be modded (some kind of dialog trigger, I believe), and adds to the Elmo character (let's just leave him in Hommlet and have some "casual chat" with the players that would later talk to him). Maybe, if possible, it could be just that once that he enters the Temple, some dialog triggers off and he says he wants to leave (this could avoid that if you went to Nulb and LATER you recruited Elmo, things would mess up).

    It'll be a good idea, as Gaear says, to encourage the use of other NPCs, I believe.
     
  12. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    QFT. This was my issue with 0rion's idea - although rules-compliant, he developed a build that seemed to have nothing to do with Elmo-as-character.

    Do we have the internal dialogue to make this happen? I don't see much... it might have to be done mainly off Otis' dlg: perhaps he offers to join a good party, the player has a "so you are leaving us, Elmo?" option and Elmo responds to that in some way. I would prefer it be alignment-based so people CAN have both in their party under certain circumstances, otherwise it de-rails DH just a tad ;)

    We seem to have gotten off the ranger topic. If I reading Lord Spike's info correctly, then a "ranger with a big axe" was out of date before 2nd edition even came along - this may be insurmountable. But we have overcome bigger problems than this :)
     
  13. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    From an engine point of view, can we even assign NPC rangers a favoured class? I certainly haven't noticed anything in the protos to enable it, that one of the most fundamental of Ranger abilities.
     
  14. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    I think you can because its in the character editor (and works - AFAIK) so the game must recognise it.
     
  15. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Yeah, Ranger-specific feats etc occasionally pop up in protos.tab. Its doable.
     
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