Keen weapons etc.

I had for a while thought it would be awesome to get hold of the Great Cleaver and enchant it with the 'Keen' attribute for an immense critical range. And then I discovered that this plain old weapon is actually already Keen, so it's 17-20x3 and doesn't go any higher. That's still nice, I suppose, but it left me wondering;

1. What's the best available critical range of any weapon in-game, after the weapon has been made Keen ?

2. Does spell Keen Edge stack with Keen weapon?

3. Does Improved Critical Stack with either of them?


I Suspect the answer to (1.) is a Rapier ?

I suspect the answer to (2) and (3) is no.


On a related note, I took Improved Critical (Bastard Sword) on my CG fighter hoping to improve Scather's range and it doesn't appear to have done anything, at least, it doesn't show up as anything but 19-20x2 on the sword's description - is the benefit from Improved Critical hidden in some manner?

 

Another question.

In DnD only slashing and piercing weapon may be made keen.
In ToEE it is possible for every weapon.
Does it really work for bludgeon wapon?

 

Here's what the SRD says about the Keen Edge spell

Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One weapon or fifty projectiles, all of which must be in contact with each other at the time of casting
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless, object)

This spell makes a weapon magically keen, improving its ability to deal telling blows. This transmutation doubles the threat range of the weapon. A threat range of 20 becomes 19-20, a threat range of 19-20 becomes 17-20, and a threat range of 18-20 becomes 15-20. The spell can be cast only on piercing or slashing weapons. If cast on arrows or crossbow bolts, the keen edge on a particular projectile ends after one use, whether or not the missile strikes its intended target. (Treat shuriken as arrows, rather than as thrown weapons, for the purpose of this spell.)

Multiple effects that increase a weapon’s threat range (such as the keen edge spell and the Improved Critical feat) don’t stack. You can’t cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as a claw.

Here's what it says about Improved Critical [General]

Choose one type of weapon.
Prerequisite;

Proficient with weapon, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit

When using the weapon you selected, your threat range is doubled.
Special

You can gain Improved Critical multiple times. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

This effect doesn’t stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon.

A fighter may select Improved Critical as one of his fighter bonus feats.

 

1: Rapier, Scimitar, Kukri are a few weapons that have a 18-20 crit range w/o Keen. I think there are others, but I don't recall which.

2 and 3: As you suspected, Keen does not stack with either Improved Critical or Keen Edge.

Making a weapon keen will change it's crit range, but does not change the weapon's long description entry in the game, so it will not list a higher range but it actually is in effect. Open your rolls window and you will see crits from hit rolls in the expanded range.

And the bonus question: Yes, you actually can have a Keen Heavy Maul in TOEE. Who knew??

 

I thought that Fruella's cleaver had a threat-range of 17-20...

 

Ah, so that's what's confused me. The Mighty Cleavers in game (Fruela and Air Temple Bugbear) have a description of a threat range as 17-20x3. They are also pre-made to have the Keen Enchantment.

This is only possible because they were built into the game this way, and my other weapons which are later enchanted Keen do not have their descriptions modified.

 

Also, Smythe sells cleavers, they are a random item, but show up regularly if you want someone to dual wield them, as hand axes, they can be dualed.

 

It is interesting, that all bludgeon weapon I tried (Greathammer, Staff of Striking, Mace of Smithing) after making keen have critical range 18-20.

The Frost Brand has it 17-20 as it could be expected.

 

The blunt verion of "Keen" is "Impact". Otherwise, it is the same.

The Great Cleaver is already Keen, +1, hits for 1D10 and it does magical damage, making it one of the most powerful weapons in the game. And it's "available" at level 1. There is a second one in the Temple on a female bugbear, iirc. (But we don't have to marry the bugbear.)

It's almost like some sort of fetish that Co8 is not allowed to remove. :rant:

 

Cleavers ?

What cleavers? You've lost me now, are you saying there's an item that Smyth "sometimes" sells that acts like a cleaver but uses the hand-axe feat? (and thus is a light weapon) ?

I find that somewhat strange, and hard to beleive, never noticed it myself. Perhaps I am just confused as to what exactly you mean.



As an aside, I currently have a game with a Dwarf fighter dual wielding Holy, Keen Dwarven War Axes. They're a martial weapon for Dwarves, so no special proficiency needed, do 1D10 damage, like a Bastard sword, but threat is 20x3 instead of a Bastard Sword's 19-20x2.

Those damn Cleavers are still better, though, as they have an innate threat range of 19-20x3 which is somewhat imba.

 

After Smythe opens up his masterwork inventory, he has a chance of having a great cleaver for sale. (It lists as a masterwork weapon, but as discussed is really +1, Keen, with a totally non-RAW damage/crit/threat combination.)

The great cleaver is a medium weapon, but uses the hand axe weapon proficiency.

 

Ah, Thanks erkper, that explains it perfectly. I've never noticed him selling one, but I know these things are random.

I suppose my mad dual-wielding Dwarf would have been better off with that cleaver, really. Then I could have dumped spec feats into Hand-Axe earlier in the game, as for a long time I had to have a plain old hand-axe in the off hand or the penalties were so high I couldn't hit anything, with either hand. (I could have just gone 1 handed but I wanted 2 axes for RP reasons...and in many ways furiously swinging away and missing a lot "felt" right for the kind of character he was supposed to be)

 

Wanna know who THE MOTHER of all keen weapons is? Open console and give yourself Hatori Hanzo Steel (4410)!!!!! :ninja: :ninja: Sure road to victory. It is cheating tho..... Never use it in a proper play, just if you want some silly fun.

 

Interesting... I thought I'd seen one for sale post 6.0, but apparently not. Regardless, there is at least 1 female bugbear in the temple that can supply it if you want to dual-wield after Fruella's "accident." :chainsaw: