Isn't the hand axe "Cleaver" too powerful???

Imho it is. And even twice! First for it's fantastic critical value. But twice because it is a weapon of hanaxe type. Thus it can be used for two-weapon fighting style at the unbelievable power!!! It requires to specialise just in the Hand axe and here we immediately have the great slayer of living...
But in fact, cleaver is not a weapon, but just a kitchen tool of a butcher. So a player has to suffer a great morale penalty to roll his saves against giving the cleaver to his paladin and everybody else!

PS Well, I'm just hopelessly dream that any update will reduce power of cleavers for a reasonable value.

 

It just doesn't look right.

Spiked chains and 2-h swords look so much better.

 

It has a bit of a history.

Troika originally included four Relationship Quests associated with NPCs. Three of the NPCs were joinable characters, and the two girls in Hommlet both brought an enchanted weapon with them. Meleny came with the Radiant Longsword, which could be used with any character, and Fruella came with the Great Cleaver, which was originally meant to be for her use only (unless she got killed). Some of the modders agreed that the Great Cleaver was too powerful, others really liked it, and so the choice was made to take it out of Fruella's quest and put it elsewhere; at this point it has ended up for sale. The price is too low (as a +1 Keen weapon it should cost something like 2000 gp or more), but it's a good compromise; those that don't like it can ignore it, those that like it can use it.

 

If you don't like it, you can always just not use it... :beer:

The Great Cleaver is indeed way overpowered, but just because it uses the hand axe proficiency doesn't mean it is a light weapon that gets the extra bonuses for dual-weilding. A very similar weapon is the bolo - check it out at Ah Fong's shop sometime. The bolo uses shortsword proficiency, but it , like the cleaver, is a medium weapon.

 

It's hard not to use it when it's right there for the taking, but I really don't use it for anyone else than Fruella... really too cheesy, an insult to greatswords in my opinion!

Guess next time I won't even play Fruella.

 

Well there are at least 2 other cleavers in the dungeon. Plus they can be purchased with the current mod.

They are considered keen? I wasted improved crit then.

 

Stat-wise, it looks more like a +1 Keen bastard sword, w/o the exotic proficiency than a greatsword.

I think I saw in the New Weapons thread that Cuch. and co. have replaced Fruella's cleaver with a rolling pin. Guess I'll have to marry Fruella again to check that one out...

 

yup, it's alot like a Bastard sword (always been my favorite) but then you don't even need to learn the feat, so it beats the raw value of a 2handed sword in just one hand...

:aaaa:

just got that, wasn't sure what that meant...

:clap:


note that this matches her Improved Trip Feat too!


* Frutella attempts improved trip, rolling pin in hand*

* FLOUR*

* whacks hubbygoblin on the head with rolling pin*


(ahem, sorry)


great idea! yours? :grin:




more seriously, I found her funny at first but in the long run her "don't tell me what to dos" do get on my nerves... plus having to kill her or fight alone to death to get rid of her doesn't go with my pally's habits!

 

Imho the best balance for any game is that a player should use everything hardly in order to win the game.
As for dual wielding again... The cleaver saves some feats. A player doesn't need to specialise in 2 kinds of weapons, one of which should be big and the other be small. He may chhose just to specialise in hand axes and thus he can carry cleaver in his right hand and a light hand axe in the other.

But if I try to specialise in long swords for example, there a no such small "long swords" for left hand. I have to take either greater penalties from carriyng a big longsword in my left hand or take a short sword, which requires additional feats for specialization.

 

well that's power, but not balance.

if they put a +7 sword of fireballs ( 11 gp) that disintegrates people with no save you're gonna win the game alright, but the game becomes a bore... and imho the cleaver is a step just towards that.

 

Daniel,
I 100% agree with you and in fact wanted to say the same.
Better that cleaver should be somehow non-usable by players. Because players should have good motivation to choose any weapon to fight. And allowed weapons should be balanced.

 

sorry! Didn't realise you had started the thread :drunk:

 

You could treat the Great Cleaver like the Holy Mace +1 sold by Calmert. Recost it up to the point that beginning parties can't afford it. By the time you hit 6th level or so and money stops being much of a problem, you'll be used to the weapons your characters have been working with. If you really want the GC, you can buy it. If not, you can leave it be.

That said, nothing is forcing a player to buy the cleaver at 8gp. Leave it in the shop and it's no problem at all.

 

good idea