Is this game supposed to be insanely hard?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by flamewolf393, Jan 24, 2013.

Remove all ads!
  1. flamewolf393

    flamewolf393 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am a veteran 3.5 player, both PnP and other d&d pc games. Even with a munchkin'd party I cannot get past a single fight without at least 2 deaths. Even just the giant frogs on the way to the moathouse are challenging (but not lethal).

    Is there something strange you have to do to succeed at this game or am I just missing something?
     
  2. ithildur

    ithildur Established Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    3
    Keep trying, you'll get the hang of things. It's not a hard game at all if you're familiar with 3.5e rules.

    Might be helpful to specify exactly what's giving you trouble though.
     
  3. flamewolf393

    flamewolf393 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am intimately familiar with 3.5. I make seriously broken characters in it. I know how to make powerful characters and balanced parties.

    The enemies are just too powerful from the very get go. They hit often and hard. Even with buying the best equipment I can my party just does not stand a chance. My melee fighters never hit, though my ranged are usually accurate. Even the best armored characters (even min-maxed monks of all things) get hit more often than not, and die in 1-3 hits.
     
  4. gazra_1971

    gazra_1971 Knights of Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Messages:
    818
    Likes Received:
    2
    Spoilers ahead

    Well, the quests in Hommlet are designed to give your party enough XP to reach level 2 before you assault the moathouse ruins.

    However, I would advise that you talk to Brother Smyth (the blacksmith in Hommlet at building #10), tell him that you are looking for something different, and then talk to Captain Renton (the Hommlet milita captain in house #2)), then go to Welkwood Bog and fight everything there, then talk to Tarim (the woodcutter in Hommlet in house #3) and go to Deklo Grove and kill the monsters there, then and only then, go to the moathouse ruins and take on the opponents there.

    Also, if you REALLY need an edge in combat, then make sure that you talk to Meleny (Farmer's Daughter in the house #5), convince her to marry you (your male PC talking to her needs a Charisma of at least 16 at the time that he talks to her in order to be able to marry her), then when you get Filliken's (her father's) consent to marry her, he will give you a Holy Sword +1 (which makes the game considerably easier!).

    By far, the easiest way to make the early part of the game MUCH easier is to simply recruit the recruitable NPCs in Hommlet. I highly recommend recruiting Elmo (a level 4 fighter with a magical battleaxe and magical armour who walks between the Inn of the Welcome Wench (building #7) and Captain Renton's house (building #2)) and Fruella (a level 3 fighter with a magical great cleaver who is in building #27) - they will make the early part of the game MUCH easier for you!

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  5. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    6
    What level are your characters at the moathouse? I might suggest a 6 man (or women, or elves, you get it) party be 3rd level before starting there. Going to Welkwood Bog, Delko Grove, and a small exploration of Emridy Meadows (plus a handful of random encounters) will easily get you to 3rd level.

    You should do your best, even spending all of your on hand gold, to equip everyone to the best of your ability. Front liners should get the best armor, either found or bought. For the money, chain shirts go a long way. If they can use a shield, get one, preferably a large one. Everyone should have a missile weapon they are proficient to use, its best to move slowly and spot those enemies from a longer distance and get off a few shots from your bows, crossbows, and slings to weaken or kill a few before they have a chance to get a hit on you.

    Remember to concentrate your attacks, as a brigand with 1hp does as much damage as a brigand with 12hps.

    Use everyone to the best of their abilities, especially on the early game where any big hit can take a party member out. Spellcasters, in the early game, should concentrate on battlefield control with grease, entangle, sleep, or web. Slowing or stopping a large group will help out more than that one Magic Missile shot. Or summon in some cannon fodder, better to drop a small spider on the web (spiders are immune to the web spell, so they can still move around even if you cannot) you cast to distract any who might pull free than to let them charge the already weaken barbarian holding the front line.

    Attacked by undead, the cleric had better be turning some of them. Ranger took goblinoids as a preferred enemy, attack the hobgoblins, not their wolf companions. Facing a large group, that is a good time for the barbarian to use his one rage. The druid did pick the jackal as his companion right? Jackals are almost like having a 4th level fighter in the party. Stick with them until you can get bears.

    Maybe you planned on that front line fighter to go longsword and shield, but he is proficient with every weapon, so maybe start him off with a long spear or a ranseur so he can attack from range without a retaliatory strike against him. When he gets more hps, you move him to sword and board. Team him up early with the cleric with the Strength domain and the Enlarge domain spell for even better reach.

    After that big battle, you go back to town to lick your wounds, rest, and heal. Don't just click rest for 10 days. Stop and rest in 8 hour intervals, and have the wizard scribe a few scrolls of the spells he likes. Now, instead of his one or 2 spells a day, he can cast 5-6.

    How is your formation? Squishies in the middle, with a cleric or rogue holding up the rear, since something always comes up behind you at the worst possible moment.
     
  6. Nightcanon

    Nightcanon Garrulous Halfling

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    444
    Likes Received:
    29
    The issue here seems to be trying too much too soon if you are heading out to the moathouse first up. The quests that gazra suggests will help get you started.
     
  7. Number99

    Number99 kicking Iuz

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    Once you get the hang of it, it's pretty "easy"! You really need to learn your character's abilities. And Elmo indeed can be a lifesaver if you're not familiar with the game. After playing through the game once you can start experimenting. And you'll see that it will go better! :yes:
     
  8. maalri

    maalri Immortal

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,128
    Likes Received:
    0
    I also had a hard time when I first started out, flamewolf393. That was years ago, and then I found out that, as many others have mentioned, you should level at least to level 2 before getting into any real fights (like the Moathouse Ruins frogs and the other baddies there).

    The Woodcutter in town will give you a little quest to the Deklo Grove where you get to kill 2 big spiders. They can kill a first level party, but if you can get them at a distance (e.g. spells and bows and summoned meat shields) then you stand a fair chance of coming out in one piece, even at 1st level.

    It is important to start with at least 5 party members until you are very well versed with the game, then you can try an insane solo run- and even then you pick up NPCs.

    The town Homlett has several "FedEx" quests that can level you to 2 as well. They can be boring, but simply talk to EVERYone in every building and take those quests on, or alternatively, follow Gazra's advise about "something different". That quest line has been set up to provide you with some low level fighting as a different path to 2nd and 3rd levels.

    Once you get to that point you will get the hang of keeping your people alive and/or get the ability to Raise them yourself or the money to pay the Druid or Priest in town to do it.
    You may have to reload a saved game or two after some battles (some in the actual Temple are very hard) but that is to be expected upon occasion in a PC game. the DM is not there to "Fudge some rolls" in the party's favor to keep them alive (or at least most of them).

    All in all, this game is the closest to PnP D&D I have ever seen, and you will enjoy it when you give it a fair chance.
     
  9. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    12,125
    Likes Received:
    140
    I'll second taking Elmo. Also, vis-a-vis the 3.5 rules, I know you know them, but let me emphasise 5' stepping to get in position to flank etc, and make sure you don't have cover. Charge into those early combats if yu have to. Don't use Power Attack, Fighting Defensively or any of that nonsense at lvl 1. Check the rolls breakdown on the right (click on the d20 symbol to bring it up) and see why your guys are missing. Often monsters just suddenly get cover because your longspear guy is hitting over someone in front, or the frog just sawllowed someone, or something non-intuitive. Cover (showing up as a sudden +4 on the monsters AC, NOT as a line in the rolls) is a killer to lvl 1 parties.

    We've all been through it but you start to auto-adjust for things and it becomes second nature. Also, can I just say...

    when you DO make it into the moathouse, a raging barbarian will run out and critically hit your spellcaster. Take a Charm ;)
     
  10. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    3,721
    Likes Received:
    48
    The Moat-House at level 2 is a completely different experience as opposed to level 1.

    Go Wannabe Lich hunting first!
     
  11. ShadowDragoon

    ShadowDragoon Advocate of Vengence

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Messages:
    579
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'll posit this: I know a lot of "veteran 3.5" players that fail to use simple tactics. They will charge headlong into combat with decent first-level gear, and expect to just smash everything into oblivion, but completely disregard alternate tactics.

    Flanking is good, because it gives you a +2 bonus to attack rolls. You know what else does that? Charge Attacks. Bull Rushing to move enemies into good positions, Tripping (if you have a Monk or other trip-built character) is amazing because it provokes AoO against the person in question and gives them a hit to AC.

    Spells are also a huge part of early game, even crappy first-tier. Stock up on some Magic Missile, some Summon spells (because even first-tier summons usually have better attack/damage bonuses than you), and even party buffs can be incredible game-changers early game.

    Alternate modes, such as Fighting Defensively bear mentioning, as well.

    I'm sorry if any of this has been mentioned already, but I seriously have a beef with players that completely dismiss other tactical options in combat for no good reason. :blank:
     
  12. tom

    tom Established Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    I notice you say frogs plural. At first level You have to take things slowly (in fact it's good to sneak untill you have Sussed out the opposition at any level) if you use the party formation and move the party forward four or fivr feet at a time you will only attract the station of one our two monsters at a time. If you wander large distances everything spots you at the same time and jumps you at once.

    If thier is something brutal about the game it's the surprise encounters, invest in survival skill and equipment to avoid encounters and allways leave a good reserve of spells and hit points for when you travel. It sucks when you do some good adventuring only to get killed on the way back to town
     
  13. Goshi3156

    Goshi3156 Dire Badger

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    2
    Up until the encounter with the Moathouse's "Master" the spell Sleep makes the Moathouse somewhat trivial. It works on everything barring some of the Bugbears and the Giant Crawfish and is great way to disable enemies. Even better you can finish them off with a Coup de Grace, guaranteeing their death.

    The battle with the Master is one of the toughest battles in the game. The large number of Archers mean you'll be taking a lot of damage very turn and the melee attackers have reach and can hit very hard. While Sleep does work on them, the enemies are scripted to slap awake those that are asleep so its nowhere near as effective.

    There are a few ways to deal with them, Charm Person is a very powerful spell. That Lieutenant is a deadly adversary... but also an excellent ally. If you have it, Glitterdust is also an excellent spell, and having it makes this battle much less of a headache. Once the Master himself shows up he usually casts Obscuring Mist. The mist actually works in your favor (Especially if you have the Blind Fight feat), since it pretty much cuts the damage you take each turn when the enemy are struggling to hit you.

    Luring the melee attackers into the corridor you just came from isn't a bad idea either. It doesn't expose you to the archers and also positions them in a way that you usually only need to deal with them two at a time.
     
  14. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    3,721
    Likes Received:
    48
    What Goshi3156 said, but also keep your eye out for an excellent crowd control scroll that's just laying around in a big room serving crawdad.
     
  15. Abardon

    Abardon Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here is the ultimate tactic against any melee opponents for your first few levels.
    [​IMG]

    But like other people have said, it is important to take things slow. Rushing into battles (such as the giant frog battles) is just a death sentence in this game.
     
Our Host!