Idea to increase variety, and therefore interest

I would like to see an option, when you go to start a new game of TOEE where you could choose either to have the same magic items and masterwork items always appear in the same place, or alternatively have them shuffled randomly about, or even a third option where from a large pool of magic and masterwork items a different random selection appears in the game in the usual places where you find them. I remember in the original AD&D game of TOEE there were a large variety of magic weapons. I remember, for example, there being something called A Wand of Wonder. An occasional game with a few randomly appearing new magic items, for example, I think would be good.

Thus instead of finding the same old neutralize poison potion in the moathouse tower you might find other potions, or one neutralize poison and one other random potion, or something else magical of the same level altogether different etc. This idea could also be extended to encounters with NPCs; does a particular NPC always have to have a particular item in every game? Of course certain items which are central to the game would be exempted from this randomizing element, or else be randomized in location but always remaining in the game, such as Fragarch, and the Orb. What do others think of this ?

Anything which adds to the variety adds to the enjoyment in my opinion, by reducing predictability. As it is written: variety is the spice of life.

 

Agreed...

...especially as it relates to wandering monsters & random encounters. As you stated, some things should not be random at all (key items & major NPC stuff); but wouldn't it be fun if Lareth had the use of random magical tools to help fend off incursions into the moathouse?

 

yeah it would be fun and then maybe they could add in the other swords of answering for the other alignments. the wand you are talking about was 'wand of a wonder' its different from a wand of wonder and you dont want it believe me the effects are all negitive if a bit funny at times. but yeah id love to see some more and different stuff in the game each time its played.

 

Why don't you start this type of request in the mod forum??

Mostly I believe those with the skill and inclinations to mod the game do not want to upset the balance.
If we give Lareth a random magic item to fight with, he could become too powerful and crush your party. Also because we do not have access to the WorldEd tool (see other posts) we do not have access to the capability to edit the Map Object Files (.mob). So any random changes would not be persistent for your game, if Lareth kills a few of your party with a wand of fireballs, your party escapes and returns healed, he would have a different random item. Work is being done to reverse engineer the .mob file format, but it is slow going. If you just want to see random loot, which is already happening in a lot of places.

So if you would like to see better mods, and more randomness, like you are suggesting, support the request for WorldEd from Troika and Atari. Or go help reverse engineer the .mob file format.

-Firestrand

 

Making a change like that in which you could trigger it via dialog would take something like 100+ hours to implement... probably a lot more once you started testing it.

Making changes in TOEE is possible, but this sort of global change would take months and months of work.

I probably have 300+ hours into my mod at the moment... and I haven't changed nearly that much stuff.

- Livonya

 

yeah i guess it is alot to ask for, but maybe Allynx or Morpheus or someone else can add in some of the original magic items from the PnP game to some new areas. if we need that much more stuff but i do think it would be cool to have all the swords in for people that play other alignments

 

Hmmmmm.... I wonder if we could have a dialog for a character that creates an item. I don't mean that it gives an item from protos, I mean actually add the bonuses, and magical properties appropriate. I haven't the first idea where to even start with something like that, especially because I don't think you can get a hook into the parties equipment.
Maybe just a dialog with more items from protos??

-Firestrand

 

Some of the NPC's...

...equipment has special properties, but doesn't show up as a 'magic' item. Hedrack's helm, for example, adds 2 to will saves (IIRC), but it isn't 'magical'. What I'm talking about is just giving them something that will help them be a little tougher...

All this aside, it might be better to simply make them fight with better tactics...Lareth wouldn't wait alone in his chamber to take on the whole party at once. He would come out and support his guards with spells, then swing blows from a flanking position with both of his weapons. Negotiation would only take place with an obviously superior force, and he would try to buy his freedom with the loads of treasure at his disposal. Once away safely, he would arrange for assassins to then visit the party as they tried to spend their new won treasure. He who fights and runs away...

 

well Lord Spike i think Liv has already improved the npc's AI pretty well. some neat new things in some of thier hands could be cool though even if its only as a treasure. i couldnt see the guardians using a weapon but they may have one as a treasure. but the high priests and leaders of the guards would probally have some better stuff to use against us and then for us to get from them afterward.

 

If magic and masterwork items were rated according to level then it wouldn't matter if Lareth, for example got something differrent from what he usually has, the staff of striking, because it would be of the same level of challenge to the party. A wand of fireballs is not of the same level as a staff of striking I don't think. As for randomizing magic and masterwork items if the items that were importart, such as the Orb, always remained in the game then what does it matter if other items are randomized about, or some are replaced randomly by others occasionally each game ? As long as the fun remained. And part of the fun, for me, is variety. Predictability kills enjoyment after a while, even for a much loved game, like TOEE. I personally think that if an NPC got hold by randomization of a wand of fireballs it would spice things up a bit. Let's face it, if you always know before each game starts which NPC has which item then you already know more than you really should. Starting characters are not all-seeing, all-knowing gods , so each game you start you should have to find out what the NPCs have, just like in real life. Always knowing, for example, that Alrrem has a +2 hammer is unrealistic. It's bad enough that you know all the NPCs and monsters and where they're located (talk about predictability) but you shouldn't also know all the time what they have before hand. That's why I also think a bit of randomizing in magic items and masterwork items is a good idea.

Now if only the monsters would move around occasionally and stop being so predictable in their behaviour, now that would be something ...

 

You should try Livonya's mod (it's the one most of the posts on the board are about now) , it gives the enemy ai much more variety, and adds some nice new content.

 

I'd like to try the mod, I really would but I am a bit hesitant about installing unofficial mods, unless they are declared safe and bug free. I know much hard work has gone into these mods, and I admire the modders totally for their passion and their effort but I just don't want to download something which might turn out to cause more problems than it solves. Call me overly cautious but some of the responses on this internet site have not been very happy about the mods (sorry Livonya and others, I am just going on what I have read), so there are obviously problems there still that need sorting. But one day I will hopefully download the mods.

Maybe somebody out there can reassure me that the Livonya mod is OK and not bug ridden. I'd love to hear this. Then I will reconsider my position.

 

@Rook: So you only install software when it's been declared safe? You're afraid of bugs? That's a good one, especially since it's ToEE we're talking about here.
Basically, it's the fan made patches that made the game playable in the first place. I wouldn't worry too much about the few issues Liv's mod may have - judging from Liv's recent posts, they are being ironed out as we speak. And in comparison with the plethora of bugs the game was shipped with, those few issues are negligible. Besides, many of the things people complain about are actually bugs that have always been there.

 

Most of the "complaints" I've seen related to the mod are about how much harder the game is with proper ai.

No one will ever be able to assure you a fan mod is safe, but no one can really assure you an official patch is safe either. There is a risk involved when installing any software I suppose.

I have to wonder why you have started a thread with a mod suggestion, when you don't seem to be interested in using the mod.

 

I like games to be bug free, that's right Morpheus. The fact that TOEE was a bug ridden mess when it came out and when I installed it and ran it doesn't mean I like it being a bug ridden mess. I hoped and prayed for these bugs to be fixed one day, and in that spirit I e-mailed Atari to fix the damned thing but nothing happened save for the three 'official' patches which fixed only a few things, and actually made some things worse.

Why am I suggesting ideas for mods when I haven't got any mods installed ? Because one day I hope to install the mods, but I cautiously wait to hear that they have been made relatively bug free, all the known bugs eliminated. (Yes I like things to be bug-free).

Call me paranoid, call me overly cautious, sorry but I can't help being this way: it's the way I was made, folks. I've always been over cautious, it's a part of my nature.

As I have written elsewhere I admire the modders for the hard work and initiative they are showing in what they are doing to fix TOEE. I wish I could fix the game myself, or contribute, but I don't have the skill. I look forward to the day when all the fixing is done and we can all play TOEE as it was meant to be played, the mods complete, all the bugs ironed out. TOEE is potentially a really great game. I'm hoping to see that potential turned into reality.