How do I create a new 2D map?

Re: 5.0.x Cumulative Mods & Fixes (CMF) Bug Reports and Discussion Thread

I was just wondering how difficult it is to modify this program in certain aspects of the game. For example getting a hold of templates for new map locations, you know like same tree's and grass yet the ability to construct the location the way you want it to look. Plus I was wondering how possible it would be to create new map locations or even enlarging the exsisting one into the larger greyhawk world. I believe with a tool similar to the construction set on Morrowind and or Neverwinter nights I could devise map locations to mirror the Grey Hawk campaine setting. The same could be done for Fae~Rune in forgotten relms. I have enough resources in 3.5 books at my disposal I could populate an entire world map with 400k citizen Metropolis cities. I would also create and vast infastructure of elaborate detailed secret passages throughout many castles and dungeons. I would create graveyards simalar to the roman style concrete ones in Baldurs gate 2 and may even create nodes to the outsiders planes either in Celestia or the Abyss. A construction set is a start, but we all know that a final publishment that can be played fluently by all would be way more enjoyable. So my only hope is to be a part or a vast network of programmers in order to compleate an entire game of mass proportion that can be played by all failsafe, thank you!

 

Re: 5.0.x Cumulative Mods & Fixes (CMF) Bug Reports and Discussion Thread

ToEE has its own modding tool, named ToEE World Builder.

Maps have to be made as JPG pictures with the content of the picture in 2D-Isometric view (plus must be made or be cropped to be a pixel size divisible by 256x256) and added to the game by having the ToEEWB tool divide the entire 2D-Isometric map in to a lot of 256x256 size parts.
Then, you have to sector the map to make the outer broundaries and boundaries of walls and solid impassable objects, define what is partially passable and what can be passed over, and define what is water and the boundaries of the water, etc.
Then, you can make mobile objects for pre-generated, pre-determined NPC characters and monsters and their gear.

I hope this makes sense to you.

[EDIT]
The most important thing to note is pictures made from the start of a modding effort need to be in a 2D-Isometric view.

 

Re: 5.0.x Cumulative Mods & Fixes (CMF) Bug Reports and Discussion Thread

and in the same scale as the rest of the game... then there is the idea of making the story line in agreement with what already has been accomplished and the fact that right now we are working on reballancing the game as in our efforts to learn to modify this game we enabled the player to create uber characters that walked through the obstacles..

The way that TOEE is progressing in the eyes of the modding community is to recreate the modules that were written for AD&D (with a few new twists) as would have been seen through the eyes of the DM... so in essence you are playing the pen and paper game with the help of computers and the imput of several venerated DM's and their gaming expertise gained through years of playing it in real life.

If you are truly interested in learning to mod. find a SMALL module online and first layout the plot, possible conversaitions, ets.. before even looking into creating the maps... as to the tools to create the isometric maps, there are tutorials available here to walk you through the process... and people are always willing to answer questions of the truly interested person...

 

Re: 5.0.x Cumulative Mods & Fixes (CMF) Bug Reports and Discussion Thread

I do understand the 2d modeling I think graphic design programs may help to transfer all five monster manuals to scale the 2 D modeling you speak of onto the program. All I need now is templates of the sceenery already USED in the game which should be no problem since they are already used in the game. Then I could utilize whatever graphic designing program the game programmers use to create templates of castles, houses, Inns, ect in order to create larger than hommlet cities with more NPC of course, but still use the same models in the game to keep it in context with this style of gameplay. This is because when graphic design is too off line with what you have going in a series it tends to loose flavor and becomes a whole different game than what is desired by players.

 

Re: 5.0.x Cumulative Mods & Fixes (CMF) Bug Reports and Discussion Thread

I believe we can keep this style of gameplay and Graphic Design and still integrate more 3.5 core rules and content into a sequel if you will. The new game will of corse be 3.5 or 4.0 core rules; however the campaign setting and maps will be greater. The amazing graphics will get better in this style and context and still move forward to NEW GROUND! I belive transfering new book content from wizards should be as easy as 3D and 2D modeling with book content transfering and appropriate scaling. Once all the book content transfering is saved to the Graphic Design program we can begin to build map locations and start hiring teams if we had to; nevertheless we could use devote followers as well and not cost us a dime! Anyway once each individual city and location is complete, sufficive enough to say, " each job is complete" we would have more data to save on the world campaign setting map, more locations. Next I would say Text data will need to be inputed into each encounter whether it be choice activated, or initiated auto encounter style. Then Item and Treasure, traps and secrete passages as well as scean nodes will need to be inplemented in a forward progress style of transitioning.

 

Re: 5.0.x Cumulative Mods & Fixes (CMF) Bug Reports and Discussion Thread

Your comments and the replies, posts # 980 to # 986 should be its own thread and not be posted in this thread.

Toolsets like morrowind, diablo, etc. use databases or database-like files and contain objects where you extract copies of the objects and assemble the separate pieces you extract to build a map. It's kind of like putting together a puzzle, except you make a new puzzle of what you define...the pieces are all extracted objects.

The ToEE game does not utilize anything like this and does not work this way. Maps are literal JPG pictures broken in to very small, same sized pieces and are marked for boundaries, edges, water, etc. The monster, NPC characters, and equipment added to maps are made from scratch as mobile objects, and even these mobs as objects are not extracted from a database or database-like file. (in terms of making mods, not the default game where the original files from the game vendor are coded in to DAT files.)

This is interesting.

In relation, the ToEE game does have models for monsters and characters on the game screens. These models can have different skins; complete models with skins are ska, skm, mdf, and txt files. Now, we do not know what is possible in this aspect, but maybe a toolset for a different game can or may allow models to be constructed that can be used in the ToEE game. But realize this, the basic model is unfinished and does not have a specific look to it. By this, I mean nothing distinct where each model is generic. When the ska, skm, mdf, and txt files are created, it defines the model, has a certain look and allows animation for a model. Also, there are two types of ways to add weapons, armor, and equipment. This is done through prototypes (in-game, spur of the moment) or is done through mobs (pre-determined and pre-generated).

Note: My understanding is the skm format is the actual specification needed to assemble pieces of a model in defined space.

PS: Like was said before, we have the ToEE World Builder tool as the primary tool to do our modding. If you would like to discuss specifics of map making in terms of what could be or might be compatible with the ToEE game from a toolset for a different game, you would probably need to discuss this aspect of modding with Agetian.

[EDIT]
Can a moderator or admin move these posts from # 980 to post 986 to its own thread in the General Modification forum?

 

Re: 5.0.x Cumulative Mods & Fixes (CMF) Bug Reports and Discussion Thread

You are talking about video graphic design ramifications not actual programs tools used to make those specs. You have to go to college for certain degree's in order to operate these privy design engines;whetherthese be "Diablo" engines or FireGL and or OpenGL slide rules and codex. Point is I get results because I have resources and vaulable connections real programmers who work for Microsoft and went to college and read megaton c++ books and taught themselves in OpenGL and many other books for different encryption for linking specific networks of design teams to create a masterwork. Sure area, location, point, and design reference are all important when desiding mathmatical graphing solutions; nevertheless there are computer engineering programs that aid in this to speed things up a bit. Moving forward I am, not just throwing weak responses out to trip me up, I get results!

 

Re: 5.0.x Cumulative Mods & Fixes (CMF) Bug Reports and Discussion Thread

Yep.
Basically, you have a base model, and a skin, none of them keyed to a type of creature.

You can have the model of a Hobgoblin, repaint the skin, and rename it to samurai. Then you give him human attributes and voilà.
So the models aren't attached to a race or class, you can switch them at will.

weapons and armor it's added directly in the skm file in some cases. A good example of this are the lizarfolk, and the giants.

 

There are acouple of ways you can go about this...
Krunchs first attempt actually was using a mod map from another came (Diablo I think) and all he used was the map itself as all of the other items were embedded sprites in the map itself. After he took the complete map, it was broken into smaller pieces which are reassembled by the game engine (which none of the current modders can hack, i believe) and the the different items, characters, monsters etc, are placed in the game using mob files which need scripting to make things happen.

From that point we found a program called World Builder which makes tiles that you place together to create the basis of your map... You can use as is or you can have a graphic artist spend the time using photoshop on it to spiff it up,.,. there are several incredible artists here that do that for us... or you can take an existing map and photoshop the scene to what you want....

however when all is done you still have to chop it up with TOEWEBB... and based upon your system, if the map is too large you will not be able to do it... not many of us have machined that can break apart the hommlet map... let alone reassemble it... so care needs to be taken to not make them too big..

 

Yes, adding a map could be hard, complicated and tedious.

BUT replacing it's far more easier (like changing the interface stuff, but easier since maps are jpgs images, not tga)

And you wouldn't need ToEEWB, just photoshop or a similar program :mrhappy:

 

hk...
You still need to use TOEEWB, as you need to chop it up into the little pieces that the map.prp uses in the Ground file It uses these little pieces to build the large map that we play on... kind of silly, but the game engine can only handle so much map area at a time... I believe that is why you get the screen lags when you move around on some of the maps.....

If anyone knows other than that.,. please let me know, and I will stand corrected.


@Ben34
There are 5-6 files you will need to work with in order to place a map into the game...and if you follow ST's tutorial that Krunch has made into a great pdf file, you can accomplish what you want to do... however a few notes....
-This game engine is not designed for head to head gaming or multiplayer gaming, so an interaction such as RuneScape you will not be able to make happen.
-The game engine is the intellectual property of Atari (or whoever owns it now) and one must be careful and not cause any issues.
-A lot of work has gone into creating the toolset to modify TOEE as we have tried toolset after toolset trying to see if they work with our engine... and none of them do.
-If you want to add area to the game, then you need to be careful not to unballance it any further... You may want to look into adding a side game/quest at the side of the road by the caravan, but looping it back into the game needs caution as we need to prevent the unballancing of it.
-One last note this is not a 3D game but Isometric and all maps need to follow that format as your pc's will look like they are rolling around on the ground....

 

Well, i've made the interface screen, which works like a map and i didn't touched anything aside the photoshop... :evil_laug
The maps are just bigger, which makes the work more tedious, but they are jpgs, and have all the same size...working with tgas it's annoying cos they have alphas, and besides, the interface stuff it's chopped in differents sizes, a real puzzle.
Replacing small maps should be easy, since you have huge black borders that you don't need to touch, you just need to change the center.

 

Allright My friends this is definately the progressive attitude I like, thank you for the good feedback I tell ya. Any-ways straight to the point I was interested in the jpg maps some of you spoke of because I want you all to take a look at a particular map screen. Go to the top of burne's tower and hit the map icon, there you will see the tower in jpg style format I believe, but it dosn't matter because whatever this picture is I can use the tool you spoke of to create a larger picture, walls to a castle with towers simalar in contrast to this. Also I spoke of nodes the blue stairs and doorways if you will that take you to different areas, this will help in transitioning to my new location once I find a good area. I was considering the 2 basements in the church and in burne's tower dungeon there happens to be a well that, with a rope you could very easily transition your way into menzobernzen if you know what I mean(that was a joke of course) but it could easily be a node to the underdark! Think about it a well at the bottom of a casle cellar, way unutilized areas in both the tower and the church, excellent sources for transitional dungeons. As far as maps all you need is either a world map, or new land style maps like this one of hommelet, one step at a time I say, linking sequels and higher leveled characters can be done in step, idealy of course. I realize this will take time and developement and the bugs will be ruthless I know, but I am willing to help in any way I can. I also want to add not only new monsters from my endless resourses, but new level content, like spells which by the way the disintegrate spell works great, I liked that one and chain lightning was a big time hit for me! But I need to edit other things in the main exe like male and female titles like sorcerer-sorceress depending on gender, also druid-druidess(which is not utilized it was overlooked) Also the lengendary Enchantress!!! which I Pulled of the substitute it was an old undercover cop-bad ass hoodlum teacher bustin adolecent felons in the innercity crime sindicates but nevermind that Enchantress! no one ever consider the book content and text developement potential in this game has a beauty and life of its own!!! Prestige classes godhood levels with epic feats and content that runs deep and rich in detail. This fullfillment is what I like to do in particular so I say bring it on I got the resources and the time, not to mention the imaginative mind and book-content ideas to full fill it.

 

Ax thrower, yes I hear you, the lags are annoying for sure and I believe that a better engine perhaps this is how vista can redeme itself however I do not want to stray from xp because I don't want vista but the new dx 10 may make a better engine flow I don't know. but like I was saying this should be possible with xp and I think making a new game alltogether may also be a solution to this lag, otherwise a new patch release from atari was what I was thinking but that would end the mod capabilities we have now. No I actually want to look into making a better game that dosent lag but first we need to know why this lag developes, I upgraded my ram and that did help but the lag still crops up in later gameplay, so what now? I think like you said we need a better engine that can handle more content and map transitioning perhaps fireGL may open new doors, I need to do some reseach.