Halfling out-of-combat move speed

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by seidaku, Mar 2, 2012.

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  1. seidaku

    seidaku Member

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    So- despite the combat speed of my halfling PC being the same (or better!) than a human PC in heavy armor, out of combat the halfling lags (significantly) behind. This is most noticeable when I use the speedup() console command; the human sized characters zip across the map almost instantly, but the halfling arrives about 30 seconds later. This is particularly annoying when I'm trying to keep a combat formation- the halfling oftentime is so far behind that it takes him several turns just to reach the combat!! :(

    Is this an unavoidable, hard-coded constraint in the game? Or is there another console command I could run to adjust the halfling character's out of combat speed to match the other characters? Or even slow the other characters to the halfling's rate- really, it is the disparity that is frustrating, because it causes them to move out of synch.
     
  2. Lava

    Lava Established Member

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    I often don't use halflings simply because I can't keep them in combat formation at all, except by only moving an inch or two at a time.
    Black bears are also really slow outside of combat, but from what I've heard, they're definitely not slower than humans in real life. ;)
    I've often wondered if the halflings are depicted as smaller than they should be. Or the dwarves are depicted as larger. The dwarves, while obviously meant to be bulkier, absolutely, well, dwarf the halflings, who I didn't think were _that_ much smaller than the dwarves. Or maybe it's just my eyes playing tricks on me. :p
     
  3. erkper

    erkper Bugbear Monk Supporter

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    I could be mistaken, but I think dwarves (due to their heavy build and general not-as-small-as-the-name-suggests build) are classed as medium sized in 3.5 Ed, same as humans or elves. I know they can use medium weapons like a longsword one-handed, a small PC such as a gnome or halfling can't do that.

    As for the non-combat movement speed, that sucks. I have some success with increasing OOC movement speed by always making every PC it's maximum racial height. Maybe maxing a halfling's height and minimizing the non-halflings would bring them closer to the same movement rate. :shrug:
     
  4. cezmail

    cezmail Gorboth's Rider

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    Just so you know, any small size character will lag behind taller ones. Make some humans, some as small as the scale will allow and some as tall as you can scale- up to. Then move them about. You will see that the smaller characters will stroll at a slower rate compared to the taller ones. This is a hard codes factor as far as I know.
     
  5. dragonalumni

    dragonalumni Elemental Warrior

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    "Halfings, breaking shit all over since LOTR."

    :evilgrin:
     
  6. Lava

    Lava Established Member

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    Boosting their speed only seems to effect combat speed as far as I can tell. Out of combat, it's based on the character's animations, which seem to never change. I still wonder about bears being slow. :p
     
  7. cezmail

    cezmail Gorboth's Rider

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    I can not speak for Bears, but it funny seeing my smallest possible human female moving at the same speed as a the tallest hobbit. Outside of combat of course :)
     
  8. dragonalumni

    dragonalumni Elemental Warrior

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    without knowing for sure lol, it would seem a simple enough change to make bears and halflings run out of combat at the same speed as humans, and while not changing balance in any way, it would however make it more playable.
     
  9. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    This is one of the reasons why my thief, (yeah thief!) is usually an elf instead of a halfling.
     
  10. cezmail

    cezmail Gorboth's Rider

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    I hear you. I am a convert from !st ED and while I will use he term rogue, in my heart and mind they are are still THIEVES. :D
     
  11. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Good news: we can fix this. The movement rate of the base protos of all PCs is adjustable.

    Did some testing ('The Hommlet Races') with a party of seven - a male of each race and of the average height for that race. (That is to say, the height you get at character creation if you don't adjust the slider. This is important because their movement rate is indeed affected by height and general size, regardless of race, as cezmail indicated above.)

    Anyway, halflings are significantly slower than everybody else, as I think you all know. Dwarves are actually the fastest. Elves are slightly slower than half-elves. Humans are slightly faster than half orcs. Gnomes are quite a bit faster than halflings. I found all this out by having races between my party members, two at a time, running from the courtyard of the Welcome Wench down to Meleny's door and back along a more or less straight and sensible pathnode so they wouldn't run any bizarre American football wide receiver routes. (Elmo stood there and watched all this with an air of stupefaction.)

    So, what we can do is speed up the slow ones and slow down the fast ones so that they all move at more or less the same rate, on average. Note however that this median speed will apply only to characters of each race's average height. (See above.) This means that if you have a tiny half orc or a giant halfling, things may get a bet uneven again, but by and large it should be much improved.

    What this will mean, in essence, as far as RP purists are concerned, is that the little guys are running faster to keep up. If you watch them very closely, their little legs are actually moving faster. Credit Troika with going to the trouble of implementing this level of detail in ToEE. I imagine they may have actually wanted the little ones to lag behind. But I don't have a problem with adjusting this as far as game-integrity is concerned, because ... why wouldn't halflings run to keep up? In the 'real world' there isn't just one speed; you can go anywhere from strolling to sprinting, so I don't see why halflings shouldn't do what it takes to maintain the structural integrity of a formation.

    Yay!

    Final note: if you do very long movement commands (which you shouldn't do due to ToEE's poor pathfinding and the increased chances of a lockup), you may still find that not everybody shows up at the same time due to a variety of factors. Personally I would suggest never giving a movement command that is longer than the dimensions of your monitor. In other words, you should always be able to see both your blue circle movement command location and your party. (Unless you have some other reason for them to be separated, like a scouting rogue.)
     
  12. Lava

    Lava Established Member

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    I noticed that... my dwarf was slightly outrunning everyone else... even the monk, if I recall.
     
  13. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    And if a one of your party is facing a direction other than the direction you just chose for them to go, he will first turn around, (as other chars run around him) and then begin to work his way to the new destination.
     
  14. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Yeah, they can have different out-of-the-gate speeds too. Dwarves are usually quickest, again.
     
  15. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Okay, here are the final tallies on movement rate. 1 is considered normal and is not increased or reduced at all. We have arbitrarily assigned humans a 'normal' movement rate, so everyone is trying to match them.

    Humans - 1.00
    Dwarves - 0.94
    Elves - 1.10
    Gnomes - 1.32
    Half Elves - 1.02
    Half Orcs - 1.04
    Halflings - 1.75

    Tested my multi-racial gang running all over Hommlet ... they now stay pretty tight.
     
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