Fire temple unfair without foreknowledge?

****** SPOILERS **********

I'm currently in the fire temple and am reminded, once again, just how much harder this area is than any other. Every other temple can be beaten with a fair chance of success. You don't need to have any special classes, spells, items or whatnot to beat any particular temple.

The fire temple OTOH is an entirely different ballgame. You have a whole lot of creatures that are hidden when you just wander through, so scouting ahead doesn't help inform you of what's to come. Since you'll almost certainly be clustered near the only visible target (Bassinio), the monsters that appear will surround you. If you try to fight your way out you'll take fire damage, plus the Noble salamanders have 3 fireballs each. All of this gives a very good chance of TPK.

Now, if you have a bunch of energy protection spells and/or ice spells, this is much easier. But how likely is the average party to have these things?

I remember my first time here. I was totally surprised and my party wiped out. Obviously, I know what's there now, but I have never been fond of using player knowledge in a game.

So I'm wondering what others think of this area. Do you go in low on hit points and with no special preparations just as you might if you were clearing out the area and thought this an easy room? Or do you only come here fully healed, rested, prepped, protected and spread out in tactical formation? What do you guys do here and are you comfortable with it?

 

I personally go in fully charged for a proverbial FIRE fight. I use any and all ice spells that my characters can use. Unfortuneately I usually leave that one until last and by them I have had my clerics and druids create masterwork Frost and FrostBurst weapons. Also have them create ring of fire resistance, Major. So I am all ready for that fight. They die and I get more weapons and I keep on going.:yikes:

 

My characters wander through the temple buffed at pretty much all times, as I would in that situation. Sure, the buffs may be wasted, but scrolls of First and Second level spells are cheap, and you make a profit on all the wands if you sell them before you use them up. I don't consider casting a few Endure Elements spells and traveling in a fairly tactical formation to be cheating; you're in the Temple of Elemental Evil, you know someone is going to hit you with Fire Balls sooner or later. Stone Skin and Bear's Endurance are also standard.

It is a darn tough fight if you don't like to buff.

 

My first time in there, I snuck in & raided the chest for the loot which helped to win the fight. A Frostbrand, Ring of Fire Resistance & the potions helped tremendously. The cleric was the first to die, as I snuck back in & set him up for the backstab, which connected soundly. Wasn't all that easy...but I found the lag to be more of a hindrance than most anything else...except maybe those fireballs, which are best handled by a Minor Globe of Invulnerability. Concentration of attacks helps take out the ones casting them, and Haste is a must.

 

"Hmmm. It's the FIRE TEMPLE. Do you think we should be prepared for fire?"

"Nah, they probably only call it that because it has a large fireplace."

 

"Its the Air Temple because the floor tiles are white. Do you think we should be prepared for lightning?"

"Sure why not?"

"Its the Water Temple because the walls are green. Do you think we should be prepared for cold?"

"Sure why not?"

"Its the Fire Temple because the walls are red. Do you think we should be prepared for fire?"

"Nah lets not waste time and spells since the previous temples don't have elemental attacks."

 

lol, nailed it! :grin:

on the other hand a good fight is a change! you're actualy proud to overcome them when you do...

 

http://paizo.com/dragon/messageboards/generalDiscussion/demonomiconZuggtmoyQuestion

I'd say Plant, Evil, Chaos, and Magic wouldn't be a bad combo for Zuggy. Justifying the Elemental colleges is no problem.

Note that the Magic domain is still bugged in ToEE; it should allow the use of Wizard scrolls, or at least in ToEE Terms (not quite 3.5 terms) make Use Item a class skill and give a +2 or so bonus in that skill. At any rate, and Evil Cleric with access to the Magic domain should be able to use Arcane wands and scrolls, which would make the fights tougher.

 

No Domains listed, but this looks to be Zuggy's official 3.5 write up. Troika powered her down so that 10th level characters could beat her, a good choice IMO.
http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/outsider/demon/zuggtmoy.htm

 

couldn't they get an extremely high Use Item skill and carry scrolls and wands of said effects but making sure those items disappear at the time of looting?

 

Why should the items disapear? Tougher foes should give better loot, and a few more scrolls of Flame Strike and Ice Storm aren't going to unbalance anything by the time you hit the depths of the Temple. YMMV, of course.

 

The problem is 3 of the clerics are poorly guarded(2 of them are alone). They usually don't survive beyond 2 attacks, especially if a fighter surprise him when he is right beside them.

If it were up to me I'll move them to their temples and beef up the monsters and their levels. Only the water high priest is adequately guarded but he goes down before he can act.

 

well why not, but my point is to simulate special spell domains for these guys...

 

Two scrolls/spells that really help, Protection from Energy(Fire), and Stoneskin. Buff up before you go in. Burne has a Cone of Cold scroll and IceStorm. There is no way around this encounter, you just have to fight it out. It's tough. Just remember that Fragarach and Scather don't work here and lock-up the game.