Doing my part (.mob format)

Ok, so I ordered up a copy of Arcanum this evening, should be here in a week or so. I also found all the patches I could, most especially the "earlier" arcanum patch for 1070, with the "good" WorldEd included.

How will this help us? Easy, as Agetian has pointed out, the version of .mob files used with TOEE hasn't changed from that used by Arcanum. So we should be able to use WorldEd to (say) change a (single) value in a container, and save out the file. As the change is made, it will be obvious what byte(s) have been affected. We than adjust that value in a .mob file for TOEE, and use the TOEE console to affirm that the same values (container_flags, as an example) change properly in TOEE. Through continued process-of-elimation, plus good use of a pro-level hex editor, we should truly limit the number of unknowns present in .MOB files. Even in cases where the format has changed a bit, this should still be helpful. As I look over earlier work in Arcanum, I am struck by how little things changed from one product to the other, so any changes should be as minimal as possible. These guys seem to have been very powerful creatures of habit.

Despite best current efforts to get the modding tools handed to us, I submit that, by continuing to decipher .mob files on our own, we will learn a lot more about how this was all designed. I'll remind people that Arcanum modders didn't know .mob format (believe me, I've looked for decent docs, and they were nearly as stumped as we have been); and I think we'll be better for the efforts.

-- d

 

Did you find a copy used? I can't find a new in the box copy anywhere.

Currently the Arcanum WorldEd can't run in the ToEE directory because of DLL incompatibilities. So do you think you could zip those DLLs my way when you get the game so I can help?

I think that they may have used a similar .mob format, except for the objects. I think by moving to the python scripting engine, they also changed the binary format of objects, so I don't think they will be compatible. I have been busy with a few other things, so I haven't had a chance to check for cPickle type information embedded in the .mob file. It might be a good idea to check.

I agree, the more you know....

-Firestrand

 

Yeah, I had trouble myself finding it; I'd read online that it was still available in stores, but couldn't find a copy. Tried online, same problem.

Then last night, on a whim of sorts, tried one of my favorite online ordering spots, and there it is. I have no idea what condition it's going to be in as far as ancillaries (box, case, manual), in fact it's probably pretty bare bones, perhaps even with the manual in a .PDF on the disc, but that's not a concern at this price and for this issue.

http://www.gogamer.com/cgi-bin/GoGamer.storefront/SESSIONID/Product/View/001ARCA

Go-gamer can be weird in its persistance. If Arcanum doesn't show up the first time, try to go a second (because the site will have assigned you a SESSIONID by then, I think) time to the same link right afterwards.

Yeah, I noticed that. I'm thinking of going looking for the bink .dll online (or in other game directories -- Diablo likes to use Bink video) soon. My game is on slow-boat-from-China shipping, and I'm impatient.

By going through the arcanum modding docs, I'm seeing more that's the same, rather than things that have changed. And Agetian has told me that the file header is exactly the same, which is really encouraging. I'm pretty certain that I'll gain AT LEAST as much information from this approach as it will end up costing me.

I'm not blind to the fact that Arcanum has been really popular as well, more and more after its release. I didn't like the demo; the character art seemed too "stretched" vertically, and the characters seemed to "jump" around. But I've gotten used to the Troika art style now (TOEE ;-)), and perhaps I was too harsh on it. Besides, the market is seeing a derth of good quality RPGs, and the modding tools for Arcanum look to have pretty nice features (ouch, I know).

-- d

 

Yeah, have you seen what it goes for new on Amazon?? I suggested to Troika that they contact their rep at Sierra and have it re-released at a lower price point. Might as well make money with what you have....

-Firestrand

 

Yes, I saw that, and I tried to make something of it, but wasn't entirely able to.

Best I did was figure out some of the format of the clipping.cgf file in the tutorial 1 directory as I've been learning the 010 hex editor (good stuff; I'll likely buy this one soon too, once my trial period runs out).

-- d

 

Here's an exception for byte 0x38 that bothers me:

The wooden orcish shield (G_50b4...) and the longsword (G_55d0) both have a 6 in 0x38, (and a 1 at 0x40), and are 136 bytes long; there is also the small gold key (G_9509...) also with 6 and 1, but it's 144 bytes long. :-(

I was hoping the two word values together determined file size, but that's apparently not so.

There's more to the puzzle...

----

A couple hours of work, and little solid has come up, though I DID find my "standard" value offsets (location, off_x, off_y, etc.) for npcs, and sketched out more info on the rest of the objects on Tutorial Map 1 (including the "backlink" GUIDs you mentioned). I'm REALLY curious what a chest created from arcanum looks like compared to this one. And a key, and perhaps a sword. I'm anxious for the new tools to show up...


-- dulcaoin

 

Yes, I'm building up a library of templates already; it's very nice because it keeps track of what you've discovered so far, without handwritten notes. Very handy.

The ONE feature I REALLY wish it had would be for me to be able to select a byte, word, longword, or quad, and then right-click and just "name" the variable for me, and the template editor would add it for me; including any "padding" as a byte unknown_XXX[x]; in front of it for me. That would be VERY helpful (if there was already an unknown_XXX array "holding" those bytes, then I'd like to see it "auto-split" the array into two bookending arrays around my value for me.

I think I'm getting spoiled at this point, obviously. :-D

----

The attributes for the npc (location, off_x, off_y, etc.) are at a different offset, but seem to be in the same order. [No, having the offsets available to me did NOT help in deciphering byte 0x38 at all :-(]

As a matter of interest, those items all change value (as you can imagine) as the animal does, so it was a LITTLE hard to figure out at first where the values were; I had to work from the non-changing attrs (radius, height) backwards. The damned rat almost TOOK ME OUT while I was working on this. I kept moving around the area where it had seemed to "start" from, so I could keep the numbers at least close.

Interesting item #2: Radius has been the first and only thing I've found so far that seems to be in both the protos entry for an object, and in the .mob file for the object.

And #3: I was shocked to discover that "Tutorial Room 1", "Tutorial Room 2", etc., are NOT scenery items as I'd guessed from the names, but actually non-drawing npc's placed in the rooms as "heartbeat generators". They are how the various tutorial messages pop up as you proceed through the tutorial portion of the game. This is actually a disappointment to me. I have felt that creating invisible critters to be used as triggers was extremely kludgey, and was hoping we could move past that once more was known from the formats. To find out that this is the "as designed" method for this is a bummer. The arcanum engine actually had true triggers that a PC would walk across to cause things to happen. I guess my main issue is that they didn't create an actual (mostly empty) object for triggers rather than use the heavy-overhead NPC object. OTOH, the argument is likely just academic, as it seems most every object is the same large structure anyway.

Agetian, I'm sure you already knew all this last part already, as that is how your item generation has been done in the past, right? (create an invis npc to generate events properly on a level).


-- dulcaoin

 

so does Hex Workshop support this "templates" idea too?

How sure are you about all that? It hasn't worked, so you're sure, or you have a definite proof?

I didn't dig much, but the fields for an NPC are the most numerous of all, so it makes sense it'd have the largest .MOB file.

The most curious thing I found was a series of about 20 bytes that was completely duplicated near the end. That definitely bears some scrutiny, eventually.

-- dul