Do NPCs actually have character development?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by taltamir, Apr 19, 2010.

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  1. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    Do NPCs actually have character development? do they trigger conversations in various points in the game? do they provide side quests? is there any point at all to them compared to making an extra character (the ones who join you permanently that is, not the ones who are an escort mission).

    Because it would be really really awesome if they did, if when I go to specific places for the first time they will trigger a dialogue, if they had each had a few side quests... if having one in the party caused certain reactions or things to occur...

    but as far as I can tell they are just completely generic (and horribly built) extra bodies on the battlefield with nothing at all to say.
     
  2. Necroticpus

    Necroticpus Cthulhu Ftaghn!

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    Oh my, yes. Otis is quite often misunderstood. He carries the weight of the world on his shoulders. He is quite philosophical about life and wants the kind of answers that you can only get by living life to the end. He searches constantly for form, for content, the juxtaposition of one person to another. He made a decision to move away from his family because he was searching for meaningful occupation that isn't hoeing the garden. He also left because he was a burden to his little brother, Elmo. Their parents never gave Elmo the kind of love and nuturing a growing boy needs. They gave all of their attention to Otis, making him feel guilty because they were neglecting his brother who he loved dearly. He hopes that one day he can make peace with himself to go back and have his brother forgive him for doing absolutely nothing other than being first born.
     
  3. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    thats awesome to hear... how do i trigger those?
    What specifically kind of development is it? does he trigger a full bore conversation in certain times in the game?

    mmm... this actually tempts me to create a new game and play it with 1 guy and only with NPCs... Otis can be my tank, that wizard guy in homlet my wizard, fenthick the rogue my rogue... My guy will be the bard... mmm is there a level 1 cleric in town?
     
  4. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    A number of the npc's have extensive dialogue and some are recruitable but have marginal or poor stats. Ronald at the church is a cleric and has extensive dialogue. Meleny is hysterical, but has marginal stats. Click on the npc and see what they have to say. Warning: Fruella is pushy-bossy, rude, obnoxious and a general pita. She makes a great fighter tho. Play with the party banter sound and text on. Meleny has the neatest voice. Flighty as hell, but pretty voice.
     
  5. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    thanks for the info...
    Actually, how about we make a list of NPCs and note which ones have good characterization? For v 5.8 I could have a play-through ONLY with those NPCs.

    As far as bad stats go... as long as they are low enough levels I can build them to compensate. And even if not, I could play them to compensate. Its just a matter of knowing the game rules and mechanics... (hint: Maximize reach, AoO, and cleaves for meleers, in that order... maximize buffs and CC for casterS).
     
  6. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    The list, cribbed from game banishee, I will remove "escort quest" NPCs as they are pointed out to me, and edit descriptions to point out who has character and who is an empty sheet of paper.

    Reported to have extensive Dialogue:
    Ronald
    Class: Cleric
    Location: Church of St. Cuthbert.
    Notes: A custom character by co8, has extensive dialogue.

    Name: Meleny
    Class: Druid
    Level: 1st
    Location: Filliken's house, #4 on the Hommlet map
    Notes: must complete several quests in order to get her, and then marry her. Receive a Holy Longsword +1 for marrying her from Filliken. See the Flirting with Disaster quest for details.
    Has extensive dialog, described as "hysterical"
    "Meleny has the neatest voice. Flighty as hell, but pretty voice".

    Name: Fruella
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 3rd
    Location: Holten & Fruella's house, #25 on the Hommlet map
    Notes: a male of your party must marry her, as part of a quest. Will not leave your party willingly
    "Fruella is pushy-bossy, rude, obnoxious and a general pita." But has good stats for a fighter.

    Name: Otis
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 10th
    Location: the Smithy, at #7 on the Nulb map
    Notes: a useful merchant of masterwork items, and capable fighter. Will leave your party if you return to Nulb from the Temple. Will rejoin again, but will leave permanently the next time.


    Unkown Dialog Level:

    The Village of Hommlet

    Name: Burne
    Class: Wizard
    Level: 8th
    Location: Guard Tower, #28 on the Hommlet map
    Notes: will not join until you've found the Temple. Sells nice spells


    Name: Cavanaugh
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 1st
    Location: outside the Inn of the Welcome Wench in the day
    Notes: you must first Intimidate him into paying his dues during the Zealotry quest. See the Zealotry quest for details


    Name: Elmo
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 4th
    Location: Inn of the Welcome Wench at night, Main Street in the day
    Notes: brother to Otis the smithy in Nulb


    Name: Furnok
    Class: Rogue
    Level: 4th
    Location: Inn of the Welcome Wench, downstairs
    Notes: also has a part in the Innkeeper's quest. Comes with a Ring of Invisibility and Dagger +1


    Name: Kobort
    Class: Barbarian
    Level: 2nd
    Location: Inn of the Welcome Wench, downstairs, next to Turuko
    Notes: only joins with 4 or less in party, and only with Kobort. Also joins in the drinking contest at night


    Name: Rainol
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 1st
    Location: Trading Post, #12 on the Hommlet map
    Notes: must be hired from the traders, and has lousy stats


    Name: Rufus
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 6th
    Location: Guard Tower, #28 on the Hommlet map
    Notes: will join after you discover the location of the Temple


    Name: Spugnoir
    Class: Wizard
    Level: 2nd
    Location: Inn of the Welcome Wench, downstairs
    Notes: gives some locations on World Map, only loots scrolls


    Name: Turuko
    Class: Monk
    Level: 3rd
    Location: Inn of the Welcome Wench, downstairs, next to Kobort
    Notes: only joins with 4 or less in party, and only with Kobort as a team


    Name: Zert
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 2nd
    Location: Inn of the Welcome Wench, upstairs, only at night
    Notes: Zert has a tendency to turn on your party at the most inopportune times. The original module states that Zert is a traitor... however, with everyone else attacking at the same time he does, you might do well to avoid him.


    The Ruins of the Moathouse Dungeon
    Name: Lareth the Beautiful
    Class: Cleric (of Lloth)
    Level: 5th
    Location: Moathouse Dungeon, #14 on the dungeon map
    Notes: Lareth is the master of the moathouse dungeon. Will mark the Temple on your world map, and turn on you once you reach it.


    The Village of Nulb

    Name: Bertram
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 1st
    Location: on the walkway, at #10 on the Nulb map
    Notes: what to say, he's as straight as they come. Related to the A Pirate's Life quest, you can buy or fight for his freedom at the Boatmens' Tavern in Nulb. Talk to him using a male character. See the A Pirate's Life quest for details


    Name: Serena
    Class: Rogue
    Level: 3rd
    Location: behind Mona in front of the brothel, at #4 on the Nulb map
    Notes: you'll first have to buy her freedom from Mona the gypsy. See the Gypsy Road quest for details


    The Temple - Dungeon Level 1

    Name: Morgan
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 2nd
    Location: a prisoner at #5 on the Dungeon Level 1 map. See #5 for details
    Notes: you'll need a "knock" spell to open the door guarding him. Talks like a blimy pirate

    Name: Pitak
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 2nd
    Location: a prisoner at #16 on the Dungeon Level 1 map. See #16 for details
    Notes: joins with Tuelk next to him as a team. He's an orc

    Name: Tuelk
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 2nd
    Location: a prisoner at #16 on the Dungeon Level 1 map. See #16 for details
    Notes: joins with Pitak next to him as a tem. He's an orc

    Name: Wonnilon
    Class: Fighter/Rogue
    Level: 6th multiclass
    Location: being held prisoner, in the cell at #17 on the Dungeon Level 1 map. See #17 for details
    Notes: is related to two mini-quests within the temple


    The Temple - Dungeon Level 2

    Name: Oohlgrist
    Class: Fighter
    Level: ??
    Location: in the middle of the most southern part at #16 on the Dungeon Level 2 map
    Notes: related to both Water Temple and Fire Temple quests. See #10 and #19 for details. You can only Intimidate him into your party. Multiple attempts at Intimidate will result in him taking less loot, down to 1/4th


    The Temple - Dungeon Level 3


    Name: Scorpp
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 7th
    Location: at #12 on the Dungeon Level 3 map
    Notes: a hill giant. Extremely powerful with 30 Strength. Might take away some challenge from the game. Related to Wonnilon's quest at Dungeon Level 2, #17, and Hedrack's quest at Dungeon Level 4, #14. Must fight him before he joins you

    The Temple - Dungeon Level 4
    Name: Kella
    Class: Druid
    Level: ??
    Location: at #8 on the Dungeon Level 4 map
    Notes: wildshaped into a hill giant, she's a druid looking for another druid or a party of true neutral alignment to join

    Name: Paida
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 1st
    Location: at #5 on the Dungeon Level 4 map
    Notes: one of Hedrack's concubines. You must use a dispel magic spell on her to release her. She's part of Valden's Rescue Paida quest in Hommlet. See The Rescue of Paida quest for details.


    Earth Elemental Node

    Name: Jaer
    Class: Rogue
    Level: 1st
    Location: at #7 on the Earth Elemental Node map
    Notes: a weaver from Nulb. Throws a special kind of low-level fire splash grenade as his attack. There's a pre-patch crash bug in that if you travel on the world map with Jaer in your party, the game locks up


    Air Elemental Node

    Name: Ashrem
    Class: Cleric
    Level: 6th
    Location: at #10 on the Air Elemental Node map
    Notes: the brother of Alrrem, High Priest of the Fire Temple. Seeks revenge


    Name: Taki
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 7th
    Location: at #3 on the Air Elemental Node map
    Notes: has merely 44hp. Must be rolling legit ;)


    Fire Elemental Node

    Name: Darley
    Class: Sorceress
    Level: 10th
    Location: at #9 on the Fire Elemental Node map
    Notes: Actually half succubus half human. Horribly built http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8003 As far as I can tell the only thing she has to say is "go north" or the like the first time you enter an elemental node to indicate where the exist is. No real plot at all...
    Also, almost everyone in nulb and homlet refuse to speak to you if she is in the party (at least, if she is in the party in demon form).

    Random Encounters on the World Map
    Name: Zaxis
    Class: Bard
    Level: 5th
    Location: a random encounter on the World Map
    Notes: searching for his sister, a half-elven wizard named Ima.



    Escort Missions:
    Prince Thrommel, Sargen.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  7. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    is ronald a custom addition by co8? because he is not listed in game banishee... and actually, I don't recall him from vanilla.
     
  8. Necroticpus

    Necroticpus Cthulhu Ftaghn!

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    You should be able to recruit the fiendish minotaur. He would rock. Or maybe the commander with the unholy double great axe.

    Recruiting Drizzt Do'urden or Bruenor Battlehammer would be cool except that they don't show up until the very end.

    Or the assassin. He would rule.
     
  9. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    but you can't... and since they would have no dialogue they would just be a name stamped on a sheet... you can put a name on a sheet and have it as a PC from the very beginning.
     
  10. Necroticpus

    Necroticpus Cthulhu Ftaghn!

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    The assassin has lots of dialog, for different outcomes.

    Maybe get Gaear to do the voices for Drizzt and Bruenor.
     
  11. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    if he wants to, then sure...

    Anyways... anyone knows anything about those I have listed as "Unkown Dialog Level"
     
  12. Necroticpus

    Necroticpus Cthulhu Ftaghn!

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    Burne has lots of Dialog. He won't join you though. He will ask you riddles though. If you answer correctly, he'll give you a special gift.

    Elmo talks some. Get him and his brother together and you can't shut him up.

    Zert, Korbort and Turuko have some dialong when they all jump you at the moathouse.

    Lareth's a big talker. He's also a merchant.

    Bertram is gay while on the boardwalk but if you pass him by and talk to him in the bar, he becomes straight. He talks too much.

    Wonnilon's a big talker also, as well as Scorpp.

    All of those unknown dialog level people talk at least some.

    You perhaps might find all of these things out if you played the game instead of just talking about it, lol.
     
  13. taltamir

    taltamir Established Member

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    Burne would join you actually, but only later in the game.

    As far as dialog goes, I mean strictly dialog after joining. Dialog that is all accessible without them joining is not part of it. Same goes for zert, koborrt, etc...

    I have played the game to completion multiple times: first on vanilla, then on co8 v3, v4, and now several times on various v5s, and now v5.7.2.

    However, I found the NPCs to be:
    1. Greedy (prior to humble NPC mod)
    2. Difficult to work with (half their stats are hidden from the player).
    3. Badly built
    4. Silent and thus pointless.

    I found it better to have a party of custom characters I create. What I am looking for is the option of having a playthrough with a party of NPCs who have good characterization and thus there is a point to play through their flaws to enjoy said characterization.

    I don't want them to just say a line or two of BANTER every now and then... I want them to actually have something pertinent to say. A story justification to taking them on. Something that makes then into a character, not just a name and a picture stamped on a generic member of their class.
     
  14. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    I used to cast Dominate on the the assassin and once on the 1/2 orc commander. They DO rock!
     
  15. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt Veteran Member

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    Well, TOEE has done a crappy job with NPC development. It IS a mostly combat-centered PnP simulator, after all... Most of fun banter has been brought in by Co8 iirc (like the Elmo/Fruella exchanges).
     
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