Hi all, I just found this forum after getting a few more gray hairs about ToEE. After many years, I finally got the time to try and play ToEE (I think the bug reports kept me from trying it up till now). Naturally I'm a huge fan of turn-based RPGs (REAL RPGs, not action-video-shooters). After facing all the bugs of ToEE (loot bug, etc.) I found my way here and am currently downloading the newest mod for ToEE. Here's my question: I think there are much too few turn-based RPGs out there. There are hardly no turn based RPGs with a 3D engine, at least not in a classical setting for multiple characters. Obviously it doesn't pay to make such games (that's why nobody makes em or they're buggy like ToEE). That's why I thought, well, if someone makes a really good game engine for turn-based RPGs (hooking up with a 3D engine), perhaps that might make things better. So I started a lot of thinking and planning and came up with the name "MRPGS" - Multiple Role Playing Game Simulator. But that's just a name. Basically it should be a game engine which can handle different turn-based games in 3D. Rule sets such as AD&D 2'nd Ed., 3.5 Ed, GURPS, Star Frontiers, etc. should be plug-in able as "modules". Same with adventures, all modules. It should be able to simulate an entire universe, down to the life in an ant pile (you never know what a wizard transforms you into, do you?). Anyone interested in such a project? (www.mrpgs.net - not updated for years... ;-) Greetings, Mark
I like the way you think. That's visionary! And it's something that game companies just might take seriously considering that it has the potential for a very wide demographic. If you can convince Ted, Gaear, Darkstorm, Vampiric Puppy, Sitra, Aegetian, Cerulean and a few others I forget right now, they should be able to come up with something.
Hi Necroticpus Thanks for the reply! Of course I forgot to mention that it should be able to simulate Call of Cthulhu as well! What more is there to say...? Hmm. Maybe this: I figured some people here should like turn-based RPGs, the REAL RPGs, the way they were meant to be played too. Why else go through so much trouble to make something usable / playable of ToEE? What's the difference between a REAL turn-based combat system and a real-time combat system? Simple: In a real-time combat system, the success depends on the abilities of the player to push buttons and move the mouse fast and good enough. In a turn-based combat system, it's not the player's dexterity, but his mental capacity of using the options of his virtual character (who might be a lot more dexterous). In turn-based, it's about being creative. About creating a own character and foster and pamper him, like a baby, to see him succeed and become powerful. Nothing else can do this as good as turn based. In real-time, no matter how much you foster a character, his success will always depend a LOT on the dexterity of the player to move the mouse and push keys fast and well enough in the character's place (for him). Real-time is just a lot less "virtual" and thus a lot more limited and based NOT on a character's abilities, but on the abilities of the real-world player. In turn-based, a super non-dexterous geek, or even a bodily handicapped person can play a super-dexterous ninja master. That's the whole *magic* of turn-based RPGs. - Or a key part of it. If the same person tries that in a real-time game, he will fail because he can't move the mouse fast enough - or the game will be lamely easy. I've been thinking a lot about why software companies don't produce the kind of turn based RPGs they used to (15-25 years ago) or the ones they could now. Imagine ToEE with a full 3D engine. You could turn the camera, zoom in and out, and play from any played character's perspective, from 3'rd person view or whatever. It's not like CPU power wouldn't allow this nowadays. Not at all. It's just too much hassle to create that AND a full turn-based combat engine. And perhaps it just doesn't sell good enough. (Sirtech (Jagged Alliance 2) went bankrupt, despite having produced one of the finest turn-based isometric combat engines for an RPG of that time.) The only solution I see is to create such a game oneself. But then, if you go through all the trouble, 3D engine, physics engine, etc. etc., why produce only ONE SINGLE game? That's what I believe the mistake was of ALL software companies that produced great turn-based RPGs, but went bankrupt nonetheless. - Such as Sirtech. It's just so much effort to create such an engine, that it really SHOULD be (re-)used for multiple projects / games / modules. And in fact it can. Even if 3D graphics get better and new 3D engines become available, a lot in a turn-based RPG game stays the same. Those parts can and should be reused! And this thought can be pushed even further, to the benefit of creating more turn-based RPGs. Such an engine could be used not only for several games / modules, but also for several different pen & paper RPGs such as D&D, Call of Cthulhu, GURPS, Shadows over Riva, etc. With a real object-based approach and complete modularity not only of adventures, but also of rule-sets, I think this could really bring on turn-based rpg heaven on the computer. To simulate space RPGs like Star Frontier, Mech Warrior, etc., the engine should be able to simulate not only a land or a continent, but large portions of space. Or even the entire universe. I think that's possible, even with accurate, real-life distances. My solution is complicated, it involves hierarchical coordinate systems, but I think it's doable. The other thing such an engine would need is maximum freedom for content creators. If a particular adventure needs a talking purse with an attitude, but purses come only with an inventory for gold pieces, that's a problem. The solution is a component object based engine. RPG programmers probably know what I'm talking about. It's about creating not fixed objects such as orcs, purses and swords, but component objects which can be assembled from other component objects (and added later on via plugins such as in an adventure module). Besides the modularity for adventures and rule-sets, that's two revolutionary approaches. Except for the modularity of adventures and rule-sets, I've got things figured out well and also documented. When creating a modular adventure and rule-set system that allows content creators maximum freedom, I'm sure some people here could give some valuable input. Well, there goes, been blathering about it much too long again... :Being_a_s Regards, Mark
As a guy who can manage "light" programming (think Visual Basic vs. C++) I always thought it would be interesting if one could create some environments with templates and some scripting without having to go too deep. I never used the Neverwinter Nights Aurora toolset, but I presume it is close to this as I've read about so many custom modules being made for that system. I've would've loved to use a "for novices" version of the ToEE engine to recreate my favorite scenes from the GDQ series, White Plume Mountain, or the Tomb Of Horrors itself (mmm... thinking about the "Chapel of Evil" room from S1....) At first blush, I suspect the challenge your engine would have would be on the ruleset of the different games. I have to image that to create a GURPS or d20 based ruleset would be extremely complicated to a point where the engine itself would have to become more and more complex to allow for the customizations required for each game system. Still... all that said... I agree with your first post and wish there were more turn-based RPGs out there. ToEE, X-Com, Civilization are 3 of my favorite games and were all turn based. Most of their successors either added real-time elements or multi-player which I'm personally not the biggest fan of, but you know, I'm old and kids these days are into that sort of thing Keep thinking big!
