Hello! I am a new registered user since I got ToEE as Xmas present. First I wish to thank you modders for working actively on your own patch thus supporting this game that seems very interesting and promising. I come to the point. When it comes to patching, what I am really interested in is exclusively bug fixings and inconsistencies' corrections. Added items, quests and/or any sort of big or small reinterpretations of the game content is something I don't wish because I don't like to see alterations of this kind in a game. So my question is: can we users install only the components of your patch we are interested in ? I am the kind of person that wouldn't welcome joke quests or things like that. Nor I'd wish to see new items that would probably shift the game balance. I read about Orion's patch which should make the game as close as possible to P&P but his patch seems to be final and no longer updated. His approach to patching however is what I'd call perfect...Modding to fix bugs, inconsistencies or even to restore broken content that never made it in in the final release is something I do welcome and appreciate. The rest should more be released maybe as optional tweaking material. The deep difference is that the first benefits every single player. The second is a matter of taste. I thank you for the answers you will bother giving me... ^_^
But that WASN'T his approach... And yes, the joke quest can be activated or deactivated by simply replacing a file. The new items that are there are generally very well balanced, and IMO not more powerful than what's already there... just different alternatives.
Leaving 0rion aside, I would suggest use the Co8 4.0.0 patch by all means, just don't install the Desperate Housewives part. As things stand, unless you add the Playful NPCs 1.3 patch, you will neither get the additional (periodically silly) quests, nor the merchant Ah Fong who sells the user-added new weapons etc. Not that these unbalance the game - they are made according to the 3.5 rules. Ditto the new spells. Or add Playful NPCs 1.3 and see for yourself: you certainly don't have to use tantos and wazikashis if you don't want. Some people like them though.
Thanks for your answers! I do appreciate them. I believe it's worth waiting for your new version of the patch though as I can see that there is quite much that you're going to add to 4.1.0... ShiningTed, you suggest me by all means to install Co8 patch and I will happily do it but can you please tell me what this patch can offer when compared to Orion's final patch ? Are the two patches partly sharing same coding and fixes ? In short, can you (or anyone else) tell me why this patch is the best unofficial patch to have for ToEE players ? Somwhere in this forum I read about a poll about what changes made by Orion might be a welcome add-on for the community. Can you please direct me to that Topic (since I could no longer find it) ? I hope that I am not too blunt with me questions but I really would like to understand more... Thanks again!
Or go track down the 3.0.4 + moebius combo. That's pretty much new content-free. It's also free of intelligent enemy spellcasters and a variety of other improvements, but whatever floats your boat. This topic has been broached before; the explanation for not providing a 'lite' version, as I understand it, is that separating rules-related fixes from everything else would be a near-impossible task, as modders typically don't enter into their projects with that goal in mind. And why should they, really? This is a fan site after all, not a production house.
Gaear, perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I do respect every modders work despite I might not like its content. I didn't ask this modding community to change their way of modding and/or thinking to please me. Since I have been part for a long time of another modding community (Baldur's Gate), I can assure you that there has been modders that have released only bug/rules fixing and/or AI improvements and you know what happened ? Every Baldur's Gate 1 or 2 player install them. Strangely as it may seem to you, such mods are the most popular ones and are considered a "must have". Then there is another big number of Mods that alter the content, add quests, NPCs etc. etc. but, you know, they're not present in any computer running those games. And that's pretty easy to understand way. Some aspects rely on personal tastes. But I never heard of people liking bugs... Here we are not discussing what this place is. Of course it's not a production house and of course modders are free to do what they think is best. But usually modders welcome feedback so that's why I expressed my point here. Also, I'd be still willing to understand what Co8's patch can offer over Orion's as I believe it's legitimate to wonder about this in order to choose one or the other, don't you think ? Thanks for your time! :beer: P.S. Shiningted came with a very reasonable proposal: install 4.0.0 except a component called Playful NPCs 1.3...Why should I instead go back to an older version and not take advantage of the important improvements that are present in 4.0.0 and future versions ?
What does Co8 offer over 0rion's mod? It doesn't cause random CTDs (beyond those due to bugs already in the game) Every NPC you meet isn't a ranger Improved enemy AI (spellcasters that actually use their spells on the correct targets or even use them at all, monsters that use their special abilities, etc, etc) A ton of game fixes. Co8 4.0 does add three extra quests, but they're entirely optional. Likewise, the extra items can only be earned by completing these quests or using the console to manually add them to your character. IIRC, 0rion's mod adds some content and NPCs as well. It's not a straight rules fix.
Kalshane, thank you very much for your insight. Most appreciated. Your answer is just what I was hoping for! I do thank you for that...
Because Livonya's mod, which is included in 4.0.0, has a great deal of new content in it, which you say you don't want. Prior to 4.0.0, Co8 mods were essentially rules and bug fix mods. So 3.0.4 would be the one for you. Co8 3.0.4 Plus, install moebius2778's custom .dll over the top. moebius2778 Warning: Co8 3.0.4 does contain one new content mod, Burne's Puzzles. To avoid it, try not to engage Burne in superfluous conversation after you've detected the secret spy in the labor camp.
Or you could just play the game through as is with the 2 atari updates and come back here if you want more. If not, no harm no foul. If so , realize that there is a lot to be had from what is offered here and you would only be an uninstall and reinstall away from the 'purity' of the unadulterated version. AFAICT you have nothing to lose by trying us out. But it is your choice. EDIT: actually there are 3 atari updates and if you don't want anything we have to offer than you should use all 3 (I am not sure if they are completely cumulative so your are best off installing all 3 in order.) If you do want to try us out later and have already installed atari patch 3 then reinstall atari patch 2 over it before installing the Co8 stuff. (at least AFAIK that should do the trick.) As far as silly quests, there are some silly things involved in the bare bones game and not for no reason. A little levity now and then is a universally good thing as far as I am concerned.... Darmagon
Thanks Gaear and Darmagon! Gaear, I don't mind much new content of a certain quality. It's a matter of responsability when introducing something completely new. There are several questions like "does this unbalance the game or overrule the game's spirit ?" or "does this kind of humor suit this kind of environment ?". I am not really the kind of person that takes life oh so seriously. You'd know if you met me! ^_^ It's just that I believe that things have their place and their moment. Epic fantasy and silly content and quests are two ingredients that are hard to mix and to make cohesist. I don't say it's impossible...It's hard though. It's a matter of style, at least in my opinion. Altering some of the contents might result in a style clash in the game. Some people might not mind it but I personally do. However, I think I won't just stick to 3.0.4 plus moebius2778's custom content because there are too many improvements when using 4.0.0 (which I won't use either...I'll be waiting for the next release) but thanks for your advice. Let me just express again my gratitude to this community for working hard for the benefit of us all. darmagon, if I read well you're working on new spells. Your project is certainly interesting and ambitious and I am surely giving it a try once it will be part of Co8's future patch. But I don't think I will ever play the game with just the Atari offical patches. Too many bugs are left according to you all and it would mean to spoil the pleasure of playing this game for the first time. I am going to be one of those lucky ones that play ToEE for the first time with many more benefits than previous gamers just due to your hard work. Of this, I thank you in advance... ^_^
well, you have to bear in mind that the new quests aren't madcap insane silly, they're just funny in some places. it's not like it's just camp humour for the sake of camp humour. i thought it was done in good taste, and isn't more out of place than Elmo's overdone swaying. In fact, IMO it's less out of place lol.
Moosehead, as we all know it's just a matter of taste here. What is good for me might not be good for you and viceversa. I have no idea what Elmo's overdone swaying might be because I never played the game. So far I have just read some pages of the manual beer: ) but I suppose it is part of the original campaign and it should strike me as something out of place... Well...One day I will verify all this personally! That day should be the one of Co8's next patch release... ^_^
Btw, I didn't explain myself too well: Desperate Housewives adds the new quests. Playful NPCs 1.3 adds the character called Ah Fong who sells new weapons and such (he's also in DH but not a part of it, so if you don't install DH - as it seems u won't, and thats fair enough, thats why it is a seperate install - you need Playful NPCs 1.3 to get Ah Fong). As it stands, you can have either or both, one or the other, as you like. If you take neither, the new weapons will always be there, but you won't encounter them in the game: you'd have to use cheats to bring them in. You'd probably like 0rion's stuff, you actually sound a lot like him (not meaning that in any negative way! Probably just an ESL thing). But his stuff just doesn't work that well. He made a massive change to the game, rushed it out in a week and a half without properly testing it, made some arbitrary changes and some (in the views of many) bad choices as well as the good stuff (and yes, there was a lot of good stuff) and introduced a new character that didn't even work properly. Kalshane is doing something similar - a complete overhaul - and he is taking significantly longer because he is actually testing what he is doing. If you want to wait for the next patch, there is no ETA for it atm but it should add an enormous amount.
Shiningted, thanks so much for your suggestion! I appreciate it! Yes, I "feared" that my main interests could just be Orion's as well and that's why I started all this discussion with no intent of insulting or denigrating any modders' work however (and I hope that there is a difference at least here). Precisely as you said, I didn't trust too much a hurried patch made by a single person whom, despite his intent, can't have the same modding ability of a whole community. I must confess I am sorry about Orion's behaviour towards you guys because he might actually been of help with good ideas but the past is past and it's time to go ahead. I am very happy to read about Kalshane's project and I am looking forward to it! I understand that there is no ETA for the next patch and I don't even dream to bug you guys about it. I just wonder if Kalshane's stuff is scheduled for being part of next patch or not. I believe it's smart to proceed as he does: modding and testing before releasing! Oh and as final note I will tell you that I hate cheat play so I believe I will never see those new weapons in the game without actually installing the components required...
