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Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by sirchet, Aug 15, 2014.
Link in my signature..
Another workaround for this is simply don't use Scather to deal the death blow.
Is Temple + compatible with the Co8 extra content? I really enjoyed the Verbo stuff and going up to 20th level.
Yes, Temple+ is compatible with Co8 mods, and contains a bunch of fixes and other non-content additions (new races, new classes, new spells, new AI improvements and more).
Thanks, I will give it a go.
I can get the new races under Temple but the prestige classes don't appear when I try and set up a character. I have ticked the box.
None of the prestige classes are available at first level. When a character chooses their second level and subsequently all prestige classes will be displayed with those for which the character meets the prerequisites being highlighted.
Ensure you have ToEE, Co8 (new content or standard content), and Temple+,
Charm monster's duration is bugged: It should be 1 day (24 hours) per caster level instead of 1 hour per caster level! Dominate spells may also be too short!
I went into an old save game to check Bard's Fascinate DC. It must be bugged. Temple + version 1.0.84
DC check for an Ogre was 31 !!!
2nd level bard (Fruella multiclass)
8 base skill
3 horn of fog
What about the Perform Check (a d20 roll of 17 appears appropriate)?
Fruella has 3 Charisma? That seems high.
Seriously though, I'll test this.
EDIT: Ok, the number changes each time (I got 23, 28 and 13). So as Pygmy says, this seems to indicate a rolled perform check, which is what the rules say HERE:
She starts with 16 charisma. She's "pretty" annoying, ha ha.
Re: Perform Check
I am unsure of how that particular Perform check works. I think that it was intended to be a DM discretion tweak to how difficult the environment is for the bards "performance" - in order for the song to work in the first place. I don't really think that it was ever intended to be an absolute d20+perform for the DC.
Before a fight/commotion you might apply the full DC. And as other distractions and fights break out, it may result in a decrease of the DC or complete failure of the song's effect.
And DC >20 (or even 25, if bard has maybe perform~7) is getting into questionable DC territory. For a 1-2 lvl bard.
A 20 lvl Bard (perform 37) vs a group of 4 Sirene Cultists rolled DCs of 45,45, 51,52. These are impossible saves for these high-level cultists. Impossible even for a PC with all items and save bonuses (except on a 20).
This seems crazy OP to me. In ToEE, this ability effectively incapacitates an enemy for a few rounds, much like a sleep spell. As long as the bard does not sing again or cast a spell, they can fight something else without disrupting the fascinate. Consider that a 7th lvl bard can instantly "sleep" three of the toughest monsters in a fight. (Undead and some other are exceptions).
Another example is the assassin encounter. Mage spells like hold/charm/glitterdust or such have a reasonable chance to neutralize the assassin. This low-level bard song is basically guaranteed to work unless you roll less than average.
Considering ToEE allows fascinate casting in the middle of combat, I suggest making the save the same as that of the suggestion song:
Will saving throw (DC 10 + ½ bard’s level + bard’s Cha modifier) negates the effect. Possibly adding perform skill/10 or perform/5 to the DC to promote perform skill investment.
Thus a lvl 1 bard with 16 charisma would see a DC of 13 . Which is comparable to a wizard with 16 int casting a 1st level spell for a DC of 11+3 = 14.
A lvl 10 bard with 16 charisma would see DC 18, which is comparable to a wizard with 16 int casting a 5th level spell.
It's not even supposed to work in combat, as far as I can tell. Also later:
Just being an out-of-combat distraction makes the huge will save at least somewhat more reasonable. (Probably makes it useless in the context of this game, though.)